OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

OF THE

CONSTITUTIONAL

CONVENTION

OF THE

STATE OF ALABAMA

May 21st, 1901, To September 3rd, 1901.

JOHN B. KNOX, Esq., President.

FRANK N. JULIAN, Esq., Secretary.

PAT McGAULY, Esq., Official Stenographer.

Volume IV

WETUMPKA PRINTING CO.

Printers and Publishers

Wetumpka, Ala.

1940

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

of the

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION

of the

STATE OF ALABAMA

May 21st, 1901, To September 3rd, 190l

SEVENTY‑FIRST DAY

______

MONTGOMERY, ALA.,

Wednesday, Aug. 14, 1901.

The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, and was called to order by the President.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Chairman of the Convention would like to know what has become of the Committee to provide that the services of this Convention shall be opened with prayer.

MR. WATTS‑ A Doctor of Divinity promised to be here this morning to open with prayer, and we do not think that it is our fault, sir.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Chair regrets that on several mornings we have had to open without prayer.

MR. ASHCRAFT‑I move that the Colonel Blackwell be asked to open the Convention with prayer.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Chair would be glad if the gentleman will serve.

MR. BLACKWELL ‑ I suggest that Mr. Ashcraft could serve.

MR. REESE‑I suggest Mr. Craig of Dallas.

The Convention was opened with prayer by Mr. Ashcraft as follows:

"Our gracious Heavenly Father, the pray Thee to teach us this morning that we are Thy temples. Our Father, we pray Thee that we may recognize the sacred trust which is committed to us this morning, and may we not give place in these temples to the


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money‑changers and the sellers of doves, but in these hearts of ours may we cherish the truth that they are the sacred altars on which the Shechinah must burn. Our Father, we pray Thee that we may be enlightened with Thy truth and do Thy work as patriotic citizens, recognizing our duty to the whole State. Teach us, we pray Thee, something of the lesson of  "love thy neighbor as thyself," and, help us so far as it is possible to guide our lives by the sacred truth. Amen.

Upon a call of the roll, 110 delegates responded to their names.

Leaves of absence were granted to the following delegates:  To Mr. Reynolds (Henry) for today and tomorrow, on account of sickness; to Mr. Kyle for today; to Mr. Hodges, for Wednesday, today and tomorrow.

MR. WATTS‑I desire to state that Rev. Dr. Andrews was to have opened the Convention with prayer this morning, but his watch was slower than our clock, up there, which is fast, and that is the reason he was not here to open with prayer, he said he will be here during the rest of the week.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Convention appreciates his kindness.

The report of the Committee on the Journal was read, stating that the journal for the seventieth day had been examined and found correct, and the same was adopted.

MR. WHITE ‑The Committee on Order, Consistency and Harmony requests to be permitted to sit during the session of the Convention, and if necessary, to have a quorum could be sent for.

THE PRESIDENT‑ This morning, or during, the morning sessions?

MR. WHITE‑ To sit during this morning's session.

Permission was given to the committee to sit during the morning's session.

MR. WHITE‑I wish to make a statement with reference to the work of that committee. We are working very hard, trying to keep up with the work of the Convention, so that when the Convention has finished its work the committee will be practically up with its work, thereby preventing a delay and the holding of the Convention in session to wait for our final action, and I am exceedingly anxious that the articles now should be delivered to that committee as rapidly as possible. Of course, if they are kept till the end of the session it will necessarily delay us and thereby delay the Convention.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I desire to make a statement on a question of personal privilege, relative to the stenographic report,


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that myself and the sheriffs of Alabama may be put in a proper light. Some weeks ago, the distinguished gentleman from Talladega made the statement on this floor that he was getting tired of threats or intimations that the people of this State would not ratify the Constitution, provided certain things were contained in it. That, like smallpox, has seemed to become epidemic upon this floor and it has got so that a man cannot express an opinion for or against a measure as to its popularity with the people, unless he is accused of trying to create opposition to the ratification of this Constitution. On yesterday the distinguished gentleman from Montgomery in his opening remarks upon the question before the House, used these words:

"We are told by the gentleman from Walker if we did not legislate according to our fears rather than our consciences, certain of our officials would pull down our work over our heads. It is the first instance I remember, Mr. President, where so august an assembly has been met by such an argument and where the delegates of a free people have been threatened, to incite fears instead of appealing to their conscience."

All I stated was this, which is in the stenographic report and the gentleman from Montgomery had to draw on his vivid imagination in order to put such a construction on it:

"It is a direct slap at every sheriff in this State and they are the men who, if they organize against this Constitution will defeat it, and you know it."

Now in order to place the sheriffs of this State right and myself right, I want this correction made. It seems here we are so prone to imitate one another that if one gentleman came up here with a 5 cent harp, other delegates in this Convention would come up here the next morning blowing a 5 cent harp.

MR. JONES (Montgomery)‑I do not understand the gentleman from Walker. Is it his own remarks that he wants corrected or mine?

MR. LONG‑ What is that?

MR. JONES‑ The gentleman from Montgomery wants to know if the gentleman from Walker desires to have my remarks corrected or his own.

MR. LONG‑ No, I do not want mine corrected. It is yours that I want corrected.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman from Montgomery may file his demurrer.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑I desire unanimous consent to make a report for the Committee on Engrossment.


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

The consent was given.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)– I am instructed by the committee to report the ordinance just sent to the desk without recommendation.

It reads as follows:

Be it resolved that the secretary of the Convention be and he is hereby authorized to contract with some competent person for the enrollment on animal parchment with India ink the Constitution upon its adoption by this Convention.

THE PRESIDENT– What will the Convention do with the resolution?

MR. WADDELL– I move the adoption of the resolution for the reason there has been some misunderstanding about this matter. The Engrossing Clerk thought it was her duty to enroll the Constitution, and the committee made some inquiry in the matter, and found that the person whom she had in contemplation was one who had never had any experience of this kind.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)– I shall beg the gentleman not to state anything that occurred in the committee. It is not proper on the floor of the Convention.

MR. WADDELL– I did not know that I was stating any secret; in fact, what I am stating did not occur in the committee at all. In the conversation which I had with the Engrossing Clerk I requested her to have the person whom she had in view to submit a specimen of her handwriting, and submit a bid to the committee. This she refused to do, and Mr. Julian, the secretary of this Convention, who is authorized by this resolution to contract with some suitable person, had a person to submit a specimen of his writing, together with his bid. This was before the committee, and I have in my hand the specimen submitted, which any person can see who wishes to look at it. It is by a skilled draftsman, one of the government engineers, who has had a great deal of experience in this kind of writing, and I think is the proper person to do the work. He is a resident of the State of Alabama, and of Montgomery, and he makes three different bids. I move the adoption of the resolution.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)– I just simply desire to say on behalf of the committee that there was some question before the committee as to whether we had made sufficient investigation with regard to the matter to make a report, and knowing that the session was nearing a close, and that some action perhaps ought to be taken upon it, as an individual member of the committee, it was my idea that the Committee on Engrossment had in reality nothing to do with the question relating to incidental expenses, and


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

that we were not familiar with that at all, knew nothing about it, certainly did not know as much about it as members of the Convention, and hence we desire to make this report to the Convention.

MR. COLEMAN (Greene)‑What has been the usual custom heretofore?

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑I don't know. That is one of the questions I do not know about. I am not familiar with practice of bodies of this sort, and that is one of the very reasons I considered that the Committee on Engrossment ought to report it back in this manner.

MR. FITTS (Tuscaloosa)‑I think it well enough for us to understand about what the relative expense of this matter is. My information is that the cost of the animal skin, as it is called. Or the parchment alone, upon which to do this writing, if that resolution is carried out, will be $105.

MR. WADDELL‑ Will the gentleman allow me to interrupt him a moment?

MR. FITTS‑ Certainly.

MR. WADDELL‑ The parchment has already been purchased.

MR. FITTS‑ Did it cost $105?

MR. WADDELL‑ Yes, sir.

MR. FITTS‑ That cost $105. Now to have the writing done by extra help, by an extra person not already in our employ,  will cost, I am informed, about $125. Of course, we are all fond of fine paper and fine writing, but I think that of the large number of persons in our employ, upon a per diem, certainly some of them are pretty good writers, and as this is fine stuff and has already been bought at a cost of $105. it does seem to me that somebody already in the pay of this Convention can write well enough to write it out on it. Of course, I think the Convention ought to do just as it pleases, but I think we ought to know the facts. We cannot vote intelligently upon the matter until we know the facts.  The paper has cost $105, and the writing will cost $125. Now, that is what this resolution means. I have a note here from the Engrossing Clerk. and she takes the liberty of saving in this way that her office is fully competent to take charge of the writing upon that paper. I just simply wanted the facts understood, just about what the expense would be, and I made inquiry of Mr. Julian, and this is the result of my inquiry, that the paper cost $105 and the writing will cost about $125.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question will be upon the motion to adopt the resolution. Is the Convention ready for the question?


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

A reading of the resolution was called for, and the resolution was again read.

MR. CARMICHAEL (Colbert)– I move to refer the resolution to the Committee on Engrossment.

MR. O’ NEIL  (Jefferson)– I move to lay it on the table.

MR. PETTUS– I rise to a point of order. Can a resolution be laid on the table without a suspension of the rules?

THE PRESIDENT– When it is referred back by the committee.

MR. PETTUS– I understood it was introduced by the gentleman.

THE PRESIDENT– It has been reported back by the committee and is before the Convention for adoption or rejection.

Upon a vote being taken, a division was called for, and the resolution was passed by a vote of 55 ayes and 26 noes.

MR. SMITH (Mobile)– I ask unanimous consent to report a resolution by the Judiciary Committee. It does not relate to sheriffs or solicitors.

The consent was given.

MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)– I want to call for the regular order.

THE PRESIDENT– The Chair had submitted the question for unanimous consent, and failed to hear any objection from the gentleman from Marengo, and so announced that unanimous consent had been obtained.

Ordinance No. 407 by Mr. Reese and the substitute were read as follows:

Ordinance 410, by Mr. Reese:

Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled.

ARTICLE —.

Sec ——.  In all prosecutions for rape, adultery, fornication, sodomy or crime against nature, the court may, in its discretion, exclude from the court room all persons except such as may be necessary in the conduct of the trial.

Referred to the Committee on Judiciary.

Substitute by Committee on Judiciary for Ordinance 410 by Mr. Reese:


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

In all prosecutions for rape and assault with intent to rape, the court may, in its discretion, exclude from the court room all persons except such as may be necessary in the conduct of the trial.

MR. ROGERS (Lowndes)‑I ask unanimous consent to introduce a resolution, to be reffered to the Committee on Printing.

Objection was made, and the regular order demanded.

MR. SMITH (Mobile)‑I ask that the ordinance reported be put upon its passage.

THE  PRESIDENT‑ The rules require that the ordinance lie on the table and be printed.

MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)— I am willing to withdraw the call for the regular order providing I get unanimous consent to introduce a resolution.   (There were expressions of dissent.)

THE PRESIDENT ‑The special order is consideration of a motion to reconsider Ordinance No. 404. This matter of the reconsideration of this ordinance was before the Convention, and was displaced by a special order which the Convention made. It now seems to the Chair that it is the special order for this time, being a motion to reconsider, it would come up immediately after the approval of the journal.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑I desire to offer a short resolution  pertaining to the management of the Engrossing Clerk’s office for the expedition of business, and I desire to say that I will move a suspension of the rules in order that it be passed.

The Secretary read the resolution as follows:

Resolution 289.

Be it resolved by the Convention that the Enrolling and Engrossing Clerk be, and she is hereby instructed to employ an assistant clerk at an amount not to exceed $4 per day for such time as she may deem advisable.

MR. SAMFORD‑I desire to say to the Convention that just at this time the articles are being rushed into the office of the Engrossing Clerk and she really needs an assistant to keep up with the work.

MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)‑Why could she not get the services of clerks of committees, several of them are not now engaged ?

MR. SAMFORD‑ Under the rules of this Convention, when the committee gets through with them, they are to be discharged.

MR. COLEMAN— Mr. President—


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

THE PRESIDENT ‑Does the gentleman from Greene desire to propound a question?

MR. COLEMAN‑I notified the clerk of the Suffrage Committee that I did not that we had need for a clerk any longer, and he gave me to understand that he was working for Mrs. Francis at this time-otherwise I would have made that report here.

MR. SAMFORD‑I desire to say while this clerk was serving the Engrossing Clerk, of course there was no need to any additional assistant, but my understanding was that he was to be discharged after receiving notice that your committee was through with him.

MR. COLEMAN‑I stated to him that I would make that report, and be stated to me that he was assisting Mrs. Francis and I said nothing more about it.

MR. SAMFORD ‑That being so, I have no objection.

MR. WADDELL– I will ask the gentleman if the Engrossing Clerk did not receive about $200 for which she did not do one day's work ?

MR. SAMFORD‑I don't know anything about that, her services were engaged and she was in attendance and this Convention ought to pay her. It seems to me we ought not to delay business at this stage of the game. It would cost many dollars in comparison to the few paltry dollars of cost to pay a clerk.

MR. O'NEAL ‑Do I understand the gentleman withdraws his motion, under the statement of the Chairman of the Suffrage Committee?

MR. SAMFORD ‑On the understanding, that the clerk will be kept to assist her,  I will.  All I want is some assistance for the clerk. I have made the report to the Convention the responsibility is with the Convention and it will be for the Convention to decide. I have no interest in the matter. having no friends, relatives or kinfolks, desiring employment in the office.

MR. EYSTER ‑The clerk ought to be allowed to select her own clerical assistance and the resolution should be adopted. I move the adoption of the resolution.

A vote being taken, division was called for, and a further vote being taken there were ayes 35, noes 54. and the resolution was lost.

MR. WILLIAMS (Marengo)‑I rise to a point of order. I understood the Chair to intimate just now that the regular order this morning to be the unfinished business of yesterday, the consideration of the sheriff matter. I call the attention of the Chair to rule 22. Of course the Chair recognizes the order of business.


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We find the first call is, order, second prayer, third ascertainment of a quorum. We find the ninth paragraph is unfinished business, and the tenth special orders. I submit to the Chair under rule 27 the order for reconsideration came up yesterday morning, or should have come up at that time-that is the meaning of rule 27.  The motion to reconsider was taken up, which was a motion to reconsider yesterday. What is this morning? It is unfinished business, and I submit to the Chair that it should properly come under subdivision nine as unfinished business after the call of the roll. It is in order on the morning's business that the call of the roll be made for the introduction of memorials, resolutions, petitions, and ordinances, at this time, and that the consideration of the motion to reconsider the Sheriff's matter would properly come up as unfinished business under subdivision 9 of rule 22.

THE PRESIDENT‑‑ It seems to the Chair that the Convention should take up the matter of reconsideration which is in order immediately after the approval of the Journal. That would be the regular order unless displaced by some special order.

MR.  WILLIAMS (Marengo)‑‑I will ask the Chair if we did not take it up yesterday?

THE PRESIDENT‑ It was taken up and was being considered, when displaced at 4 o'clock yesterday afternoon by a special order which the Convention made. The Convention had under consideration this matter relating to sheriffs, and at 4 o'clock it was displaced by the special order relating to solicitors. That having been concluded. it seems to the Chair that the motion to reconsider would come up in its proper place.

MR. O'NEAL‑I rise to a question of personal privilege. In The Advertiser yesterday it stated : "Mr. O'Neal of Lauderdale made the point of order that no report had been made on the ordinance and it was, therefore, not before the Convention. President Knox sustained the point."

I do not wish this statement to go to the country unchallenged. In fact, I made the point of order that the report of the minority committee was entitled to lie over and be printed and placed upon the calendar, and occupy the same attitude as the report of the majority.  This point the Chair overruled.  The statement, as published, is just contrary to what occurred.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The special order for this hour will be the motion to reconsider the vote whereby ordinance 401 was lost.

MR. COLEMAN (Greene)‑Mr. President, and delegates of the Convention, the question under consideration at this time is whether the Governor shall have authority to suspend a sheriff when, in his opinion, it ought to be done. I had hoped in the early part of this discussion to introduce an amendment providing that


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sheriffs might be tried by a court, appointed by the Governor at home so as to save the expense and delay of having him brought to Montgomery. I believe the business has progressed so far that an effort of that kind at this time would be ineffectual, and the simple question now is to state it in the language of the distinguished delegate from Montgomery: "Shall the Governor, when he thinks the Sheriff; have been derelict, suspend them from office? The argument in support of the proposition has been more by way of illustration than directly upon the point. For instance, as an illustration to say that a business man in any employment, and that it is necessary in conducting his business properly, to have the power and the authority, to suspend or dismiss any employee. Mr. President, that has no bearing upon the question. No employer would be apt to dismiss an employee, and after he had dismissed him, then examine to see if he had a right to dismiss him.  There is where the argument is faulty. In this case the proposition is to discuss him, and after he is dismissed to go and see whether he has done wrong, and that is the argument. That is the language which you will find in this report.

MR. BROWNE‑ Under the provisions of the measure, suppose the Governor suspends a Sheriff, pending an impeachment, and he remains suspended six months or a year. During that time, the Sheriff receives no fees, I suppose. Some other officer receives them. Is there any provision to reimburse him, if he has been suspended on an improper ground, or impeached, and not sustained?

MR. COLEMAN— Of course, those points are to be taken up.  I propose at this time to call attention to the argument made in support of the proposition. The next argument was that since 1819 a Governor has been subject to suspension during impeachment. I f there is any force in the argument growing out of the conditions or provisions of the statutes in 1819, the same force should be applied to that of sheriffs, inasmuch as since 1819, down to this good time, there has been no such provision in our law suspending a Sheriff. You see what kind of an argument when it is sifted and examined, has been made. It is further said that the solicitor is suspended, but has the gentleman cited you any law or can he find any, where a solicitor was suspended until after he was impeached and during trial?

MR. JONES– My argument was when a solicitor was indicted, I didn't say impeached.

MR. COLEMAN ‑Of course, the Governor is impeached or suspended, but the Governor is not suspended until he is impeached before the Senate.

MR. JONES– Will my friend permit another question? Under the present statutes of Alabama, has not the Governor the power


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

to order sheriffs impeached on an information filed by the Attorney General under the present laws?

MR. COLEMAN‑I am answering your arguments. Yes sir, but has not under the present law the Governor the power to, suspend him before he is impeached.

MR. JONES‑ Of course not.

MR. COLEMAN ‑That is your argument you want to justify his suspension before impeachment.

MR. JONES— Before trial—

MR. COLEMAN‑ Please do not interrupt me. I have your argument and will meet it fairly even if I make a mistake in doing it. A solicitor is never suspended until after an indictment. In this instance it is proposed to suspend him even without impeachment or indictment and Mr. President and delegates of this Convention, it goes farther with any other criminal, no matter how heinous an offense he has committed, the presumption of law all the way through is that he is an innocent man until proven guilty, but in this case the gentleman proposes to reverse the only rule which has ever received universal approbation by declaring that the sheriff is guilty without trial or charge and inflict punishment upon him in the first instance, it is wholly untenable;  it is not right in principle, and no argument can be brought to sustain it when properly examined. The citation from Judge Manning does not bear him out or have anything to do with it whatever. Of course, when the Legislature creates an office and the office is abolished and the man is removed from it, the office goes, but whoever heard of taking an office from a man, except in the one instance where something of the kind was attempted to be done up here in Jefferson, but in law, whoever heard of an office being taken from a man without a charge or trial or anything of the kind.  Now, Mr. President and delegates of this Convention, it has been said that it was impossible for the State to have a fair trial at the home of the sheriff. His influence with the jury would be so great that justice could not be done. Mr. President, you have taken him away from his home, you have brought him to Montgomery now, he has no jury, he is to be tried here. Why then go farther and inflict upon him unnecessary, unusual prohibitions or burdens in addition to these? You have selected one officer alone out of all the State officers of that kind and he is the only one of them that you propose to suspend upon the opinion of the Governor without even a charge being formulated. But it is said, Mr. President, that in view of the grave offenses that are being perpetrated in our land, it is necessary to hold this threat over the sheriffs of the State. I am no man to advocate mob law, and in fact will go as far as the farthest to suppress it, but you will remember it is the common law, whether the written law of this State, that when


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a man trespasses upon your domestic family, and your wife or daughter is defiled or seduced,  he is justified from one end of this land to the other, when he resorts to the shotgun.  The men are all justified and I doubt whether anybody in this House would rise and say that in a case of that kind, the man would not be justified in resorting to violence. You would justify such a case as that, but when such an occasion of this, in St. Clair County arises, a beautiful young lady trying to prepare herself for school, returning home is overtaken left for dead, in a pond,  and when she revives and go towards home, with her clothes torn from her body, then it is the mob who with the father rises and would vindicate the wrong done his family. In one instance, the argument is right, My time is up, but I am not through.

MR. DENT‑I shall have but little to say upon the motion which is to reconsider the vote by which Ordinance 404 was defeated. I believe that is the parliamentary attitude of the question.

To begin where my distinguished friend from Greene left off, the trouble about mob law, fellow delegates, is that it is not confined to the crime referred to by the distinguished gentleman.  It is growing. Mobs execute vengeance upon criminals, for different offenses. The newspapers are full of them, and the people understand that this spirit is growing. Surely something ought to be done to suppress that growing spirit of mob violence, and insubordination to law. Now the sheriff is the important executive officer in a county, and the fact stands glaring to the delegates to this Convention that mobs and mob violence has not been suppressed in Alabama, and no sheriff or officer has ever been punished so far as it has come to my knowledge. Now the gentlemen argue that it is not proper for the Governor to have the right to suspend upon a mere change.

MR. COLEMAN– Without charges.

MR. DENT— Well, without charges being preferred as the gentleman suggests. My understanding of this ordinance is that there is a complaint against the Sheriff under these circumstances.  If there is no complaint and no charge against him where is the Governor that would undertake to set him aside and relieve him from the duties of his office"   It is only done upon a complaint and a charge that he has failed in his duty. Let us see. You say it is a complaint upon a mere suggestion or mere opinion of the Governor. Let us look at the facts. I do not get away from them.  The ordinance provide; "and the Governor, when satisfied after hearing the Sheriff''— he has a hearing before the Governor ; he has the right to be heard in his own explanation of what took place in defence of his conduct.

MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)‑And introduce witnesses.


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

MR. DENT– He can bring in any testimony he pleases, that the Governor is willing to hear, and I do not believe the people of Alabama have ever, or will in the future, elect a man for that high office who will not be impartial and who will not do justice to a fellow office holder. We are too suspicious, it seems to me in that regard. The Sheriff has a right to be heard and when heard, if upon his own showing, and after his own showing, the Governor feels that he has been derelict in his duty, he has a right to suspend him from office and let charges be preferred, and he is tried at once.  These matters about this and all that kind of thing can be regulated by the Legislature. They ought not to be placed in a Constitution of a State. But I come back. Let its look at what has taken, place in Alabama.

It is common history. Didn't the Governor of Alabama telegraph a Sheriff of a county in this State to know the circumstances under which a prisoner was mobbed, and what was the reply?  "It is none of your business." What could the Governor do?  What power had he? I am told upon authority which is to be relied upon that in a county of this State, where the Governor was actually present, when a prisoner was in the custody of the Sheriff, and when there were threats to niob him, the Governor event to the Sheriff and told him he would tender him the services of the military to protect his prisoner, and he declined to ask for them.  What could the Governor do? And in that very instance the Governor took the responsibility of ordering the military to that point, and the sheriff and his friends and the friends of the mob were on their guard and were notified that the military would arrive and the mob, led by the son of the Sheriff, went into the jail and executed the prisoner.

MR. BURNS‑I understood you to say a moment ago that a certain Sheriff replied to the Governor, "It is none of your business." Is that a fact?

MR. DENT‑ It was so published and never denied.

MR. BURNS‑I read all the papers about that time, and didn't see it.

MR. DENT ‑That is a matter the gentleman can examine and discuss for themselves.   I say that the Governor ought to have some power in this matter when he is charged with the duty of executing the law.   I do not believe this goes too far. I believe this Convention ought to express itself upon this question and check the tendency.  Where is it going?  What is the tendency?   Parties have been executed for crimes very different from that referred to by the distinguished gentlemen who preceded me, and the tendency is that way and there ought to be some expression of opinion by this Convention that will have a tendency to repress it.


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Certainly there would be no delay in the trial of a Sheriff.  Where he is impeached and proceedings instituted, it is a preferred case, and it is the duty of the court to give him a speedy trial.  It is a preferred case above all others. It takes precedence of all others, and tinder the ordinary rules, unless the man himself delays it, there should be no delay in this trial. The Convention has had this question before it twice. They have sustained this report, and I move to lay the motion for the reconsideration of this report upon the table.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑And upon that I call for the ayes and noes.

The Secretary proceeded to call the roll.

MR. LONG‑I rise to a point of order. The Convention has already refused to lay it on the table by a direct vote, and it seems to me that any motion of that kind would be out of order.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The point is made after the roll call has commenced, and is too late.

Upon a call of the roll, the vote resulted as follows:

AYES.

Ashcraft,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Palmer,

Banks,

Harrison,

Parker (Elmore),

Barefield,

Henderson,

Phillips,

Bartlett,

Hinson,

Pillans,

Beddow,

Howze,

Porter,

Boone,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Reynolds (Chilton),

Brooks,

Kirk,

Sanders,

Byars,

Ledbetter,

Searcy,

Cofer,

Lomax,

Selheimer,

Davis, of Etowah,

Malone,

Sloan,

Dent,

Maxwell,

Spears,

Duke,

Miller (Marengo),

Vaughan,

Eley,

Mulkey,

Waddell,

Espy,

Murphree,

Weakley,

Fitts,

NeSmith,

White,

Foshee,

Norman,

Whiteside,

Freeman,

Norwood,

Williams (Marengo),

Gilmore,

Oates,

Winn.

Graham, of Talladega,

O’Neal (Lauderdale),

Total– 56

NOES

Altman,

Browne,

Chapman,

Almon,

Burns,

Cobb,

Bethune,

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Coleman, of Greene,

Blackwell,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Coleman, of Walker,


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

Davis, of DeKalb,

Knight,

Reese,

Ferguson,

Locklin,

Rogers (Lowndes),

Glover,

Long (Walker),

Sanford,

Graham, of Montgomery,

Lowe (Jefferson),

Smith (Mobile),

Grant,

Lowe (Lawrence),

Smith, Mac. A.,

Grayson,

Martin,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Greer, of Perry,

Merrill,

Spragins,

Haley,

Miller (Wilcox),

Stewart,

Handley,

Moody,

Thompson,

Heflin, of Chambers,

Opp,

Walker,

Heflin, of Randolph,

O'Rear,

Watts,

Hood,

Parker (Cullman),

Williams (Barbour),

Inge,

Pettus,

Wilson (Clarke),

Jackson,

Pitts,

Wilson (Wash'gton).

Jones, of Bibb,

Proctor.

Total‑56.

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING.

Beavers,

Hodges,

Pearce,

Bulger,

Howell,

Renfro,

Burnett,

Jenkins,

Reynolds (Henry),

Cardon,

Jones, of Hale,

Robinson,

Carnathon,

King,

Rogers (Sumter),

Case,

Kirkland,

Samford,

Cornwall,

Kyle,

Sentell,

Craig,

Leigh,

Sollie.

Cunningham,

Long (Butler),

Sorrell,

deGraffenreid,

Macdonald,

Studdard,

Eyster,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Tayloe,

Fletcher,

Morrisette,

Williams (Elmore),

Foster,

O'Neill (Jefferson),

Willet.

PAIRS.

AYES.                                                            NOES.

Messrs. President,

Weatherly,

Jones, of Wilcox,

McMillan (Baldwin).

So the motion to table was lost.

During the roll call —  —  — 

MR. REESE‑ For the first time in this Convention, I ask leave to explain my vote.

Objection was made.

The question then recurred upon the motion to reconsider, and upon a vote being taken a division was called for, and by a vote of 55 ayes and 52 noes the motion to reconsider was carried.


4146                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)‑I do not understand the position it puts us in.

THE PRESIDENT ‑It reconsiders the vote.

MR. O'NEAL‑I move to lay the original ordinance on the table, and on that I call for the ayes and noes.

MR. LONG‑I make the point of order that we had three votes to lay on the table, and the motion is too late.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The motion is too late to lay the original ordinance upon the table.

MR. WILSON (Clarke)‑Does not the ordinance now take its place in the regular order of business?

THE PRESIDENT‑ In he opinion of the Chair, it would unless the Convention wishes to make it the special order for this hour.

The next order of business will be the motion to reconsider the vote whereby the sheriffs were allowed to succeed themselves.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I make the point of order that the Convention has already reconsidered that vote.

THE PRESIDENT‑ That question is now the special order.  It is another proposition.

MR. JONES (Montgomery)‑I move to postpone the motion to reconsider the vote whereby the Sheriffs were allowed to succeed themselves until after the reading of the Journal on Friday.

Upon a vote being taken, a division was called for, and by a vote of 50 ayes and 53 noes, the motion to postpone was lost.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I move that ordinance No. 404 now be read and placed upon its passage.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question before the Convention is the question of the reconsideration of the section—

MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)‑I move to postpone that until after the consideration of the ordinance in reference to the impeachment of sheriffs.

THE PRESIDENT ‑It is moved that the consideration of the motion to reconsider the vote whereby the sheriffs were allowed to succeed themselves be postponed until after the Convention has disposed of the ordinance relating to the impeachment of sheriffs.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I would like to be recognized to offer a substitute to that motion of the gentleman from Lauderdale.


4147

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

THE PRESIDENT‑Is it as to time?

MR. LONG (Walker)‑Yes, sir. I move that ordinance No.404 be taken up at 12 o'clock today.

THE PRESIDENT‑‑ The gentleman rose to a point of order.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑The point of order is this: This is a part of the Committee's report on impeachments, and this ordinance is as much a part of the Committee's report on impeachments as any part of that article, and it was made a special order, and therefore should be disposed of. The Committee on Impeachments unanimously reported the ordinance and recommended its passage.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Chair will overrule the point of order.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑Now then, I move that ordinance No. 404 be made the special order for 12 o'clock today as an amendment to the motion of the gentleman from Lauderdale.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman from Walker moves to amend by changing the time suggested in the motion of the gentleman from Lauderdale and to make this the special order for 12 o'clock today.

MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)‑Doesn't that require a suspension of the rules and a majority vote to make it?

THE PRESIDENT‑ It does not.

MR. O'NEAL‑I move then to lay that on the table.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The Chair did not recognize the gentleman from Lauderdale, but the gentleman from Jackson.

MR. PROCTOR‑I move to lay the motion and the amendment on the table.

Upon a vote being taken a division was called for, and by a vote of ayes and noes 45 the motion to table prevailed.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question will be upon the motion to reconsider.

MR. REESE‑I move to table the motion to reconsider.

MR. O'NEAL‑ On that I call for a vote by ayes and noes.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The motion is to reconsider the section whereby the sheriff is allowed to succeed himself, thereupon it is moved to lay upon the table the motion to reconsider that section. The ages and noes are demanded, is the call sustained?

The call was sustained.

MR. O'NEAL‑I ask that the Chair restate the question.


4148                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

THE PRESIDENT‑ There was a motion to reconsider the vote whereby the provision was adopted to allow the sheriff to succeed himself; thereupon a motion was made to lay the motion to reconsider upon the table. It is the motion to lay upon the table we are voting upon, and those in favor of tabling the motion to reconsider will say aye and those opposed no, as your names are called.

During the call of the roll:

THE PRESIDENT ‑The Chair will not vote on this question, being paired with the gentleman from Jefferson, Mr. Weatherly, on the impeachment Article, and this grows cut of that.  The Chair would vote no on this motion, and Mr. Weatherly, if present, would vote aye.

When the name of Mr. Coleman (Greene) was reached on roll call, the delegate did not vote.

MR. JONES (Montgomery)‑How did the gentleman vote?

THE PRESIDENT‑ Delegates are required to vote unless excused from voting.

The name of Mr. Coleman was again called.

MR. COLEMAN‑ Am I compelled to vote?

THE PRESIDENT‑ The point has been made, and the rules require the gentleman to vote.

MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)‑Not unless some gentleman requires that he vote.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman from Montgomery raised the point.

MR. COLEMAN ‑Then I will ask this Convention a favor that I have never asked of this Convention before‑ to explain my vote.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The gentleman asks unanimous consent to explain his vote. Is there objection?

The consent was given.

MR. COLEMAN‑I am opposed to sheriffs holding two terms, but I do not know what disposition is going to be made with this other ordinance, and that is why I do not wish to vote. That is all.

THE PRESIDENT‑ How does the gentleman vote?

MR. COLEMAN‑ On that account, if this other question was disposed of I would know exactly what to do.


4149

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman will have to vote unless he obtains the consent of the Convention to be excused. Does the gentleman ask consent?

MR. COLEMAN‑ Yes.

Objection was made.

MR. COLEMAN‑I vote aye.

Upon the call of the roll the vote resulted as follows:

AYES.

Altman,

Graham, of Montgomery,

Murphree,

Almon.

Graham, of Talladega,

NeSmith,

Barefield,

Grayson,

Opp,

Boone,

Greer, of Perry,

O'Rear,

Brooks,

Haley,

Palmer,

Burns,

Handley,

Parker (Cullman),

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Heflin, of Chambers,

Pettus,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Heflin, of Randolph,

Proctor,

Chapman,

Hinson,

Reese,

Cobb,

Hood,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Coleman, of Greene,

Locklin,

Stewart,

Duke,

Long (Walker),

Vaughan,

Eley,

Miller (Marengo),

Williams (Marengo),

Eyster,

Miller (Wilcox),

Wilson (Clarke),

Glover,

Moody,

Wilson (Wash'gton).

Total‑45.

NOES.

Ashcraft,

Freeman,

Martin,

Banks,

Gilmore,

Maxwell,

Bartlett,

Grant,

Merrill,

Beddow,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Mulkey,

Bethune,

Harrison,

Norman,

Blackwell,

Henderson,

Norwood,

Browne,

Howze,

Oates,

Burnett,

Inge,

O'Neal (Lauderdale),

Byars,

Jackson,

Parker (Elmore),

Cardon,

Jenkins,

Phillips,

Cofer,

Jones, of Bibb,

Pillans,

Coleman, of Walker,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Pitts,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Jones, of Wilcox,

Porter,

Davis, of Etowah,

Kirk,

Reynolds (Chilton),

Dent

Knight,

Rogers (Lowndes ),

Espy,

Ledbetter,

Samford,

Ferguson,

Lomax,

Sanders,

Fitts,

Lowe (Jefferson),

Sanford,

Foshee,

Malone,

Searcy,


4150                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

Selheimer,

Spragins,

Weakley,

Sloan,

Thompson,

White,

Smith (Mobile),

Waddell,

Whiteside,

Smith, Mac A.,

Walker,

Williams (Barbour),

Sollie,

Watts,

Winn,

Spears,

Total– 73

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING

Beavers,

Jones, of Hale,

Pearce,

Bulger,

King,

Renfro,

Carnathon,

Kirkland,

Reynolds (Henry),

Case,

Kyle,

Robinson,

Cornwall,

Leigh,

Rogers (Sumter),

Craig,

Long (Butler),

Sentell,

Cunningham,

Lowe (Lawrence),

Sorrell,

deGraffenreid,

Macdonald,

Studdard,

Fletcher,

McMillan (Barbour),

Tayloe,

Foster,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Willet,

Hodges,

Morrisette,

Williams (Elmore).

Howell,

O’Neill (Jefferson),

PAIRS

AYES                                     NOES

Weatherly,

Messrs. President.

And the motion to table was lost.

MR. FITTS (Tuscaloosa)– I demand the previous question on the motion to reconsider.

MR. HOOD– I rise to a point of order. The Article on Impeachment has been ordered to a third reading and to be engrossed, and a single Section of that Article cannot be considered without reconsidering the order by which it was ordered engrossed and to a third reading.

MR. FITTS– That point of order should have come before the last vote. It comes too late.

MR. O’NEAL– Cannot stop this. It was a motion to table the vote to reconsider, and it comes up now on the motion to reconsider.

MR. JONES (Montgomery)– This is a separate ordinance, anyhow, it has nothing to do with that.

MR. O’NEAL– It has nothing to do with the question of impeachment.

MR. HOOD- It is not a separate ordinance, but on the contrary was an amendment added to Section 3 of the Article of Im-


4151

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

peachment, and that Article has been passed and ordered to be engrossed and to a third reading.

THE PRESIDENT– The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Tuscaloosa.

MR. FITTS– I want to make the point of order, that the point of order made by the gentleman from Etowah comes too late. The Convention has voted, and I moved the previous question on reconsideration. Furthermore, the Convention voted down a motion to table, and on yesterday notice was given of the reconsideration of the measure by which sheriffs were given a right to succeed themselves; that was the notice of consideration of all legislation that accomplished that end. That was the form in which notice was given. The point of order comes too late and the notice of reconsideration covers the entire field.

MR. HOOD‑I do not think the Journal will show that.

MR. FITTS‑I think it will.

MR. HOOD‑As I recollect the motion was made to reconsider the Section in which the right of succession was conferred upon the Sheriff. That Section is a part of the Article on Impeachment. The amending stage of that Article of Impeachment has passed out of the Jurisdiction of this Convention, under the present parliamentary status, according to the uniform ruling of the Chair heretofore.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Chair will look at the Journal.

MR. O'NEAL‑ It is in the stenographic report.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The official Journal controls the Convention.

The Journal shows: "Mr. Jones (Montgomery) moved to reconsider the vote by which amendment to Section 2 of the Article on Impeachment was adopted (regard to sheriffs having two terms.)"

Now that motion would not have been in order without a motion made and adopted to reconsider the vote whereby the Article was ordered engrossed and to a third reading, which would have to be followed up by a motion to reconsider the vote whereby the Section as amended was adopted, and then it would be in order to move to reconsider the vote whereby the amendment—

MR. O'NEAL‑I make the same point of order with reference to the motion of Mr. Long, with reference to Impeachments, if that be the ruling of the Chair.

MR. FITTS (Tuscaloosa) ‑The stenographic report has the motion to reconsider: "Mr. Jones (Montgomery)‑I make a mo‑


4152                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

tion now to reconsider the vote by which two terms were given to the Sheriff. I voted for that."

MR. O'NEAL (reading front stenographic report) : "Mr. Jones (Montgomery)— I make a motion to reconsider the vote by which two terms were given to the Sheriff. I voted for that."

MR. FITTS‑ That covers the third reading and all.

MR. O'NEAL‑ Therefore I move that the Journal be corrected, so as to state the facts.

MR. FITTS‑ Those are the very words.

MR. LOWE (Jefferson)‑I suggest the point of order that the matter has been taken up by unanimous consent of the Convention, and the point of order therefore, that it is out of order comes too late. There was not a dissenting voice, the matter had been taken up and laid before the Convention and a vote has been had to table the motion to reconsider.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The difficulty in the mind of the Chair is how the Convention without a motion is to get over those other two votes, the vote whereby this Article was ordered by a third reading, and the vote whereby this Section as amended was adopted. Two votes must be reconsidered before the motion of gentleman from Montgomery would be in order.

MR. LOWE‑I recognize the difficulty, but it does occur to the a subsequent vote taken on a different proposition could not cut off the right of a member to move to reconsider a specific matter of which he gives notice he will move to reconsider. The right to reconsider is preserved by the rule. Any member voting favorably has the right within the morning hour, to move to reconsider. Now, can a subsequent action of the Convention in voting down a different proposition, cut off a vote or take away that right?   I submit it a question that is difficult of solution.

THE PRESIDENT‑ It appears to the Chair that the Convention without objection has taken up the question. It is proper and competent where the Chair prefers not to rule, to submit the point of order to the Convention and the Chair will do so.

MR. HOOD ‑The only thing that I am particularly anxious about is that the record may be kept straight in reference to this Article.

Now as to the question of unanimous consent raised by the gentleman from Jefferson, the Chair did not put that proposition before the Convention, there was no unanimous consent had of the Convention.

THE PRESIDENT‑ There are many points in the proceedings of the Convention and in courts, where a point is waived,


4153

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

when not raised, or not insisted upon, and the question is here whether the succeeding steps by unanimous consent are to be considered as having been waived by not having been made.  The Convention took in this question of reconsideration and set it down for a future day, and this morning took it in and voted upon a motion to table, and then after all those proceedings had been gone through, the point of order is made, at a time when it would be impossible for the friends of the motion to put themselves right on the record. So the Chair will submit to the Convention the question of whether the point of order will be maintained or overruled.

MR. LONG (Walker)– Will the President hear me a moment?

Mr. Sollie sought recognition.

THE  PRESIDENT‑ There has been so much discussion on this question and so many days have been consumed, it seems to the Chair there ought to be a vote.

MR. THOMPSON‑I call for the ayes and noes.

The call was not sustained.

Upon a vote being taken a division was called for.

MR. COBB– Will the Chair please explain the question?

THE PRESIDENT ‑The question before the Convention is upon a motion to reconsider the vote whereby an amendment offered by the gentleman from Monroe, allowing the sheriffs to have two terms was adopted.  That was the question before the Convention. The Convention voted down the motion to table that motion to reconsider. The question, then, would come up before the Convention upon that motion to reconsider. The point of order is trade against it that the motion could not be entered, because a preceding motion or two preceding motions, had not been made in time. The reply to that is, that the Convention. by unanimous consent, waived the other two motions. They are presumed to be waived, and the Chair feeling unwilling to rule on the point of order, submits it to, the Convention.

MR. CHAPMAN– What will be the effect of a vote "aye" and a vote "no," in reference to the ordinance allowing sheriffs to have two terms?

THE PRESIDENT‑ The effect of the vote aye will cut off a motion to reconsider and sustain the law and permit the provision to stand in the Constitution allowing sheriffs to have two terms.  A vote no will allow the Convention to retract its action on that question.


4154                  

OFFICIAL  PROCEEDINGS

Upon a vote being taken on the division, by a vote of 36 ayes and 65 noes, the point of order was overruled.

MR. FITTS‑I demand the previous question.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The question is, shall the main question be now put?

MR. LONG (Walker)‑On that I make a point of order. This Article on Impeachment, which allows sheriffs two terms, passed to its third reading on last Saturday. No motion was made at the time to reconsider. A motion was made on Monday to reconsider.  Now, the point of order is that this Article on Impeachment is out of the power of this Convention to amend in any way, and while we might move to reconsider it, it would be null and void on its face. It would take a separate ordinance and it would have to take its proper course before that could be done. It is exactly in the same status as the report yesterday on Judiciary, where it relates to solicitors. We might reconsider the vote on the whole Article, and bring it up here and still it would not be subject to amendment.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman is arguing the point of order. Now, the effect of the ruling; so far, is that the vote whereby this Article was ordered to a third reading is considered as having been reconsidered by unanimous consent, and so the vote whereby this section, as amended, was adopted and the point of order will be overruled. The question will be, shall the main question be now put on the motion to reconsider?

The main question was ordered.

THE  PRESIDENT‑ The question will be upon the motion to reconsider the vote whereby this amendment was adopted.

The motion to reconsider was carried.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I rise to a point of personal privilege.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question now will be upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Monroe.

MR. FITTS‑I move to table that amendment.

MR. BAREFIELD‑I rise to a point of parliamentary inquiry.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I rise to a question of personal privilege.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman from Tuscaloosa moves to lay upon the table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Monroe, which allows sheriffs two terms.


4155

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Walker on the question of personal privilege.

MR. LONG ‑In regard to the unanimous consent, I want to state, and I want to be recorded on the journal, that I myself objected and voted against unanimous consent for a reconsideration of any part of this Article making it the special order and all. I do not know how many more did, but some twenty, thirty or forty  of them.

MR. BAREFIELD‑I would like to know what comes up first before the Convention ‑the question of reconsideration of the impeachment question or the sheriff question?

THE PRESIDENT ‑The question now is upon the motion  to table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Monroe. That is not debatable.

MR. BAREFIELD‑I make the point of order that that does not come up until after the question of impeachment.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The point of order is overruled.

MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)‑I demand the ayes and noes.

MR. HARRISON‑I rise to a point of inquiry.   My recollection is two amendments were offered to this section, one by the delegate from Monroe, and one by the delegate from Greene.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The one offered by the delegate from Greene was accepted by unanimous consent.

MR. FITTS‑ The one of the delegate from Greene was accepted, and was merged into the section.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question is on the motion to table the amendment whereby the sheriff is allowed two terms.

MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)‑I demand the ayes and noes.

MR. WILSON (Clarke)‑Is the consideration of the Article on Impeachment now the order of business for this hour? We considered it and after be considered it, it falls back in the order of business.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman made his point too late.  If he had made it in time, the Chair would have considered it.

MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)‑I call for the ayes and noes.

The Chair announced that the call was not sustained.

MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)‑I demand a verification.

MR. WILSON (Clarke)‑I rise to a point of order. The section has been reconsidered, but the amendment has not been


4156                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

reconsidered.  A motion is not in order to table an amendment which is a part of a section. There is no amendment pending. The section is pending.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The vote whereby the amendment was adopted was reconsidered. That was the question submitted. The vote upon the other question was waived by not making the point.  The question is on the demand for the ayes and noes. Is the demand sustained?

The call was sustained.

Upon the call of the roll, the vote resulted as follows:

AYES.

Messrs. President,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Phillips,

Altman,

Harrison,

Pitts,

Ashcraft,

Henderson,

Porter,

Banks,

Hood,

Proctor,

Bartlett,

Howze,

Reynolds, of Chilton,

Beddow,

Jackson,

Rogers, of Lowndes,

Bethune,

Jenkins,

Sanders,

Blackwell,

Jones, of Bibb,

Sanford,

Brooks,

Jones, of Wilcox,

Selheimer,

Browne,

Kirk,

Sloan,

Burnett,

Knight,

Smith, of Mobile,

Byars,

Ledbetter,

Smith, Mac A.,

Cofer,

Lomax,

Sollie,

Coleman, of Greene,

Lowe, of Jefferson,

Spears,

Coleman, of Walker,

Malone,

Spragins,

Craig,

Martin,

Stewart,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Maxwell,

Thompson,

Davis, of Etowah,

Merrill,

Vaughan,

Dent,

Mulkey,

Waddell,

Espy,

Norman,

Walker,

Ferguson,

Norwood,

Watts,

Fitts,

Oates,

Weakley,

Foshee,

O’Neal, of Lauderdale,

White,

Freeman,

O’Neill (Jefferson),

Whiteside,

Gilmore,

Parker, of Cullman,

Williams, of Barbour,

Grant,

Parker, of Elmore,

Total– 77

NOES.

Barefield,

Cobb,

Graham, of Talladega,

Boone,

Duke,

Grayson,

Burns,

Eley,

Greer, of Perry,

Cardon,

Eyster,

Handley,

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Glover,

Heflin, of Chambers,

Chapman,

Graham, of Montgomery,

Heflin, of Randolph,


4157

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

Hinson,

Murphree,

Searcy,

Jones, of Montgomery,

NeSmith,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Long, of Walker,

Opp,

Williams, of Marengo,

Lowe, of Lawrence,

O’Rear,

Wilson, of Clarke,

Miller, of Marengo,

Palmer,

Wilson, of Washington,

Miller, of Wilcox,

Pettus,

Winn,

Moody,

Reese,

Total– 38

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING

Almon,

Inge,

Renfro,

Beavers,

Jones, of Hale,

Reynolds (Henry),

Bulger,

King,

Robinson,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Kirkland,

Rogers, of Sumter,

Carnathon,

Kyle,

Samford,

Case,

Leigh,

Sentell,

Cornwall,

Locklin,

Sorrell,

Cunningham,

Long, of Butler,

Studdard,

deGraffenreid,

Macdonald,

Tayloe,

Fletcher,

McMillan (Baldwin),

Weatherly,

Foster,

McMillan, of Wilcox,

Willet,

Haley,

Morrissette,

Williams, of Elmore,

Hodges,

Pearce,

Howell,

Pillans,

During the call of the roll:

MR. GREER (Calhoun)– I ask unanimous consent to explain my vote.

There was objection.

MR. JONES (Montgomery)– I vote “no” simply to keep faith with the gentlemen on the other side. It is not my sentiments. I beg the Chair’s pardon—

MR. O’NEAL (When his name was reached)– I desire to say that I vote aye because it appears that some of the other side(the remainder of the statement was drowned by loud expressions of dissent.)

And by a vote of 77 ayes and 38 noes the amendment was laid upon the table.

MR. HOOD– I move the adoption of Section 2, and upon that I call for the previous question.

MR. LONG (Walker)– I hope that the gentleman will withdraw that.

There were expressions of dissent.

MR. FITTS– You mean as reported by the Committee?


4158                                          

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

MR. HOOD– As amended by unanimous consent.

MR. LONG (Walker) ‑I ask the gentleman to withdraw that a moment.

MR. SOLLIE‑I would be glad to hear it read.

MR. OATES‑I would like to hear the section read amended.

The Secretary read as follows: "The chancellors, judges of probate courts, solicitors and judges of inferior courts from which an appeal may be taken directed to the Supreme Court, may be removed from office for any of the causes certified in the preceding section by the Supreme Court, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law.

MR. O'NEAL‑ The sheriffs name is not in there.

THE PRESIDENT‑ Was that not stricken out by amendment? The Chair is informed. The Secretary read the minority report.

The Secretary read Section 2 as follows: "The chancellors, judges of circuit courts, judges of probate courts, sheriffs, solicitors and judges of inferior courts from which an appeal may be taken directly to the Supreme Court may be removed from office for any of the causes specified in the preceding section by the Supreme Court, under such regulations as may be prescribed by law."

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question will be upon the adoption of the section and upon that the previous question is demanded and the question is, shall the main question be now put?

The main question was ordered.

Upon a vote being taken the section vas adopted.

MR. HOOD‑I move that the article be engrossed and ordered to a third reading and upon that I call for the previous question.

The main question was ordered.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question is on the motion to order this article engrossed and to a third reading.

MR. WILSON (Clarke)‑I rise to a point of inquiry.  Is the ordinance accompanying that article which we reconsidered this morning a part of the Article?

THE PRESIDENT‑ It is not a part of the article, it is a separate ordinance.

MR. LONG‑I rise to a point of parliamentary inquiry. Can I now offer an article on impeachment exactly like the old Constitution as a substitute?


4159

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question is on ordering this article to a third reading and engrossment.

MR. JONES ( Montgomery)‑Under that article as it stands now, is the sheriff impeached before the Supreme Court?

MR. FITTS‑ Yes, sir, we have just passed it.

MR. HEFLIN‑I think somebody called for the previous question but the Convention has not yet sustained it.

THE PRESIDENT‑ It was just submitted to the Convention and sustained by a very large vote.

The  question is on ordering this article to engrossment and a third reading.

MR. HOOD– I move the adoption of the ordinance reconsidered this morning, ordinance 404.

THE PRESIDENT‑ Unless the Convention makes the consideration of this Article on Impeachment a special order, it would be displaced and the next order of business would come up.

MR. O'NEAL‑I rise to a point of order. This ordinance reported by the Committee on Impeachments was reported as a separate ordinance. It then became a new section to the Article on Impeachments they adopted. Where does it belong? It was not a derelict. It belonged to the Article on Impeachment and I raise the point that it became an amendment to the Article on Impeachments and the Article having been ordered to a third read and engrossment you cannot reconsider it without reconsidering the ordering to engrossment and a third reading and that is too late.

THE PRESIDENT— The Chair will overrule the point of order. In the opinion of the Chair it is perfectly competent for this Convention to pass an independent ordinance as for instance the ordinance providing for pay of members and many other ordinances. some of which have passed, and an ordinance providing for the settlement of the State debt.

MR. O'NEAL‑ The rules require all ordinances to have headings and to state what articles of the Constitution it goes under.  I ask the Clerk to read that and see what head it goes under.  I call attention to that rule.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Chair will overrule the point of order.

MR. HOOD‑I want to make a motion that we take up this matter and dispose of it now.

MR. JONES‑ What matter?

MR. HOOD— This ordinance we have just reconsidered.


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THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman from Etowah moves that we proceed to the immediate consideration of the Article providing for the impeachment of sheriffs.

MR. O'NEAL‑I move to lay the motion on the table.

Upon a vote being taken, the motion to table was lost.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question is now upon the motion of the gentleman from Etowah to take up for consideration the ordinance relating to impeachment of sheriffs.

Upon a vote being taken, the motion was carried.

MR. HOOD‑I move the adoption of the ordinance, and upon that motion I call for the previous question.

MR. ESPY‑I understand an aye and no vote is demanded.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The rules would require an aye and no vote.

MR. HOOD‑I call for the reading of the ordinance.

The Secretary read the ordinance as follows:

Whereas, Ample provision is made by law for the impeachment of officers, and

Whereas, It is contrary to the policy of this Government that any part of the powers of one department should be exercised by an officer of another department; and

Whereas, It is contrary to the spirit of our institutions that any person should be punished before a trial.

Now therefore be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, That the following part of Section 28 of Article V., adopted by this Convention, to wit:  "And the Governor when satisfied after hearing the Sheriff, that he should be impeached, may suspend him from office until the impeachment proceedings are decided."

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question will be upon the passage of the ordinance.

MR. JONES‑ Upon that I ask for the ayes and noes.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The rules require a vote by ayes and noes.

MR. BROWNE‑ The gentleman from Etowah calls for the previous question, and an aye and no vote is not necessary on that.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The attention of the Chair is called to the fact that the motion for the previous question has not been put.


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

The main question was ordered.

THE PRESIDENT– The question is upon the adoption of the ordinance.

Upon the call of the roll the vote resulted as follows:

AYES

Almon,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Parker (Elmore),

Altman,

Greer, of Perry,

Pettus,

Beavers,

Handley,

Pitts,

Bethune,

Heflin, of Chambers,

Spragins,

Blackwell,

Heflin, of Randolph,

Proctor,

Browne,

Henderson,

Reese,

Burnett,

Hood,

Rogers (Lowndes),

Burns,

Inge,

Samford,

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Jackson,

Sanford,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Jones, of Bibb,

Smith (Mobile),

Chapman,

Knight,

Smith, Mac A.,

Cobb,

Locklin,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Coleman, of Greene,

Long, of Walker,

Sollie,

Coleman, of Walker,

Lowe, of Jefferson,

Spears,

Cornwall,

Lowe, of Lawrence,

Stewart,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Martin,

Thompson,

Eley,

Merrill,

Vaughan,

Eyster,

Miller (Marengo),

Walker,

Ferguson,

Miller (Wilcox),

Watts,

Foshee,

Moody,

Williams (Barbour),

Foster,

Norwood,

Williams (Marengo),

Glover,

Opp,

Wilson (Clarke),

Graham, of Montgomery,

O’Rear,

Wilson (Wash’gton),

Grant,

Palmer,

Winn,

Grayson,

Parker (Cullman),

Total– 74

NOES

Ashcraft,

Fitts,

Mulkey,

Banks,

Freeman,

Murphree,

Barefield,

Graham, of Montgomery,

NeSmith,

Bartlett,

Harrison,

Norman,

Beddow,

Hinson,

Oates,

Boone,

Howze,

O’Neal (Lauderdale),

Brooks,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Phillips,

Byars,

Jones, of Wilcox,

Pillans,

Cofer,

Kirk,

Porter,

Craig,

Ledbetter,

Reynolds (Chilton),

Dent,

Lomax,

Sanders,

Duke,

Malone,

Searcy,

Espy,

Maxwell,

Selheimer,


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Sloan,

Weakley,

Whiteside,

Waddell,

White,

Total– 44.

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING

Bulger,

Jones, of Hale,

Pearce,

Carnathon,

King,

Renfro,

Case,

Kirkland,

Reynolds, of Henry,

Davis, of Etowah,

Kyle,

Robinson,

deGraffenreid,

Leigh,

Rogers (Sumter),

Fletcher,

Long, of Butler,

Sentell,

Gilmore,

Macdonald,

Sorrell,

Haley,

McMillan, of Baldwin,

Stoddard,

Hodges,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Tayloe,

Howell,

Morrisette,

Willet,

Jenkins,

O’Neill, of Jefferson,

Williams (Elmore),

PAIRS

AYES.                                                            NOES.

Weatherly,

Messrs. President,

Cardon,

Cunningham,

By a vote of 74 ayes and 44 noes, the ordinance was adopted.

THE PRESIDENT– The ordinance will be printed and referred to the Committee on Order, Consistency and Harmony.

THE PRESIDENT– The next order of business will be the consideration of the report of the Committee on Education

MR. HEFLIN (Chambers)– Would it be in sometime between now and 12 o’clock to introduce an ordinance.

Mr. Oates took the Chair.

MR. HEFLIN– I move to suspend the rules in order that I may be permitted to introduce an ordinance.

Upon a vote being taken, the Convention refused to suspend the rules.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM– The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Talladega.

MR. GRAHAM– I want to say, Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, that I have no speech prepared for the introduction of my ordinance this morning. I want to give an outline of what it proposes to do, and then if there should be any discussion, it will be upon each Section as it is considered. I beg to say, however, fellow delegates, that I trust and believe that we have before this Convention an ordinance upon which all minds may unite, and that in the consideration of this ordinance we may experience


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that feeling of unity which has been beautifully expressed in Holy Writ : "Behold, how good and how, pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity." I believe that the delegates of this Convention are unified upon the one subject of public education for all the children of this State, and that they believe it should fall, as the dews and the gentle rain, upon all alike, without reference to their condition. It is with this view that the Committee comes before you practically harmonious. We present thirteen sections. The first Section presents a change as to the manner of distribution of the school fund. Under the present Constitution it is provided that the school fund shill be apportioned for the equal benefit of all the children. We have a statute on page 1004 of the Code of 1896, which says that the Trustees may apportion the funds as they may deem just and equitable and for the equal benefit of the children that are of a school age. Many propositions were introduced providing that the school fund should be divided according to the tax paid by the several races. The Committee unanimously concluded that that would conflict with the Constitution of the United State, and they have provided in lieu that equal benefits of the school fund of the races shall be equal as nearly as practicable, and thereby meet all the requirements of the Constitution of the United States and of justice between the races in Alabama.

Now, as to the second and third sections, they remain unchanged. Section 4 is simply a change in detail. The poll taxes are to be applied to the public schools, but we leave it to the Committee on Suffrage and Elections to provide who shall pay poll taxes, and how much shall be paid. So in effect there is no charge.

Section 5 presents comparatively the greatest change. This is a summary of all the school revenues of the State. Under the present plan we have $550,000, as a State appropriation, and the one mill tax, which added to that, will make $806,000 or $807,000, which the State of Alabama is giving for public schools from general and special taxes, leaving out of consideration the Sixteenth Section fund and the poll tax. We provide that in lieu of special one mill tax, and the appropriation of $550,000. a tax of three mills, out of the six and a half mills, shall be exclusively applied to schools. That tax of three mills leased upon the present State values, would yield about $36,000 less than we are now getting, but it provides a sliding scale whereby, if tax values increase the school fund will be increased, and if tax values decrease the schools will share in the adverse conditions that come upon the State.  In the opinion of the Committee, we will lose at least $50,000 on poll taxes under the new election law. If we do, and lose $36,000 from the present estimate on the three mill tax then we will have lost $86,000 for the schools on present condition, but as friends of the schools, we are willing to accept that as a present basis, hoping the future of the State may be prosperous, and that the


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

schools will share in that prosperity when it comes, We ask the favorable consideration of this Convention in giving us the three mill tax in lieu of the $550,000 annual appropriation, and the one mill special tax, although it may not at present give us the exact amount that we are now receiving.

The Committee on Taxation demonstrated to the satisfaction of this Convention that the State would be able to meet this obligation and give this much for public schools, so much so that the Chairman of that Committee introduced an ordinance which came before our Committee, that this Convention should maintain as the minimum constitutional fund the present school fund of the State of Alabama.

As to Section 6, it remains unchanged.

Section 7 remains unchanged, except the term of office and the mode of election of the State Superintendent are left to the Executive Article which has already been adopted. Sections 8 and 9 remain unchanged. Section 10 remains unchanged except that that Institution for the Deaf, Dumb and Blind at Talladega, and the Alabama Girls' Industrial School at Montevallo have been placed among the Constitutional Institutions in Alabama. Section 11 is a new Section which provides for the taking of a school census. That has not been heretofore a constitutional requirement, and it was the unanimous opinion of the Committee that there should be a constitutional safeguard thrown around the school census of Alabama, and thereby stop the cry of false enumerations, which has not heed limited to any one Section of the State. Section 12 is a new Section, and is a modification of the amendment offered on the Article of Taxation, and provides that three-fifths of the qualified voters in any county in this State may vote to levy a tax not exceeding one mill for the use of the public schools of the county in which it is levied and collected I do not propose to enter into the merits of that at this time. There is a minority report on this Section offered by Mr. Ashcraft.

MR. FITTS‑ Will you permit an inquiry?

MR. GRAHAM ‑Certainly.

MR. FITTS‑ It only provides that the male tax payers shall participate in this election?

MR. GRAHAM‑ The "qualified electors" of the county.

MR. FITTS ‑And a woman who pays taxes has no voice?

MR. GRAHAM ‑No, sir; she is not a qualified voter.

MR. FITTS‑ She can be taxed though to keep these schools up if it is adopted?

MR. GRAHAM‑ Yes, sir, if it is adopted.


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

Section 13 is Section 11 in the present Constitution, and is incorporated without change. I desire to state that there is a minority report in regard to Trustees of the University of Alabama.  Certain other gentlemen have reserved the privilege of offering an amendment who decided that they did not care to offer a minority report.

With this statement, I move that the Article on Education be taken up section by section for adoption.

Upon a vote being taken the motion was carried.

Section 1 was read as follows:

Section 1. The General Assembly shall establish, organize and maintain a liberal system of public schools throughout the State for the benefit of the children thereof between the ages of seven and twenty-one years. The public school fund shall be apportioned to the several counties in proportion to the number of school children of school age therein, and shall be so apportioned to the schools in the district of towns in the county as to provide as nearly as practicable, school terms of equal duration in such school districts or townships. Separate schools shall be provided for white and colored children and no child of either race shall be permitted to attend a school of the other race.

MR. GRAHAM– I move the adoption of the section.

Upon a vote being taken the section was adopted.

Section 2 was read as follows:

Sec. 2. The principal of all funds arising from the sale or other dispositions of lands or other property, which has been or may hereafter he granted or entrusted to this State or given by the United States for educational purposes shall be preserved inviolate and undiminished and the income arising there from appropriations.

MR. PETTUS‑ There is no change in that section and I move its adoption.

Upon a vote being taken the section was adopted.

Section 3 was read as follows:

Sec. 3. All lands or other property given by individuals, or appropriated by the State for educational purposes, and ali estates of deceased persons, who die without leaving a will or heir, shall be faithfully applied to the maintenance of the public schools.

MR. OPP‑ That section makes no change. I move its adoption.


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

Section 4 was read as follows:

Sec. 4. All poll taxes levied and collected in this State shall be applied to the support of the public schools in the respective counties where levied and collected.

MR. ASHCRAFT‑ There is no substantial change in that section and I move its adopted.

Upon a vote being taken the section was adopted.

Section 5 was read as follows:

Sec. 5. The income arising from the l6th section trust fund, the surplus revenue fund, until it is called for lay the United States government, and the funds enumerated in Sections 3 and 4 of this Article. together with the special annual tax of thirty cents on each one hundred dollar of taxable property in this State shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools, and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to increase, from time to time, the public school fund as the necessity therefor and the condition of the treasury and the resources of the State may justify. Provided, that nothing herein contained shall be so construed as to authorize the General Assembly to levy in any one year a greater rate of taxation than sixty-five cents on each one hundred dollars worth of taxable property.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑I move the adoption of that section.

MR. WATTS‑‑ If I understand the provisions of this section, it provides for the levying of thirty cents of the sixty-five cents of State taxes for the support of public schools. It says : "Together ,with the special annual tax of thirty cents on each one hundred dollars of taxable property in this State shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to increase, from time to time, the public school fund as the necessity therefor and the condition of the treasury and the resources of the State may justify.  Provided, that nothing herein contained shall be so construed as to authorize the General Assembly to levy in any one year a greater rate of taxation than sixty-five cents on each one hundred dollars worth of taxable property."

Now, if I understand the English language that means the State trust devote thirty cents of the sixty-five cents which is collected by taxes from the people of Alabama to the maintenance of the public school;. I do not think that that provision should be in the Constitution. There may be a necessity to use more than thirty-five cents of the sixty-five cents for other purposes, and for this; Convention to say, to the legislature that for all time to come, you shall use thirty cents of the sixty-five cents of the taxes


4167

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

that you levy, for school purposes, and that you shall not use but thirty-five cents of the sixty-five cents for other purposes, strikes me is putting in the Constitution, a very dangerous thing, and I certainly shall oppose it.

MR. COBB‑I do not think this ought to be passed. I am in favor of maintaining the public schools, but this is a matter that the Legislature of the State of Alabama ought to control. They can take from time to time the amount of money that the Treasury of the State of Alabama can afford for this purpose, and it is not properly a constitutional matter. We are putting too much in this Constitution of mere legislative matter. It is dangerous. We have already reduced the limit of the tax rate to 65 cents, which is a dangerous proceeding, in my opinion, and now to put in the Constitution that a certain amount of the taxes levied shall be by constitutional provision, applied to educational purposes, is putting the resources of the State in a dangerous conditions, and I hope that it will not be adopted.

MR. WALKER (Madison)‑I simply desire to  request the Convention to deliberate on this matter before it is enacted into the Constitution. The State, like an individual, should make provision for the education of its children, according to its means, and should apply to the purposes of education so much of its resources  as are not needed for the other purposes of government. It would be folly in any individual to say, without regard to his circumstances in the future, that he must at all times apply nearly one-half of his income to the education of his children, and tie himself up so that no matter what were the needs of his family, that appropriation must be made. Is it not equal folly for the State to put itself in a position where, notwithstanding urgent and  necessary demands, for the support of its government, and the maintenance of its other institutions, that there shall be appropriated to the purposes of education, nearly one-half of its income?   That is the situation that the State is  proposed to be put in by this provision.  Can the friends of education demand anything more of the State of Alabama at this time, or at any time, than that the Legislature shall appropriate to the purposes of Education such all amount of its income as may be left after the necessities of the Government have been provided for? You are putting yourself in a position where the State would not be able to meet the extraordinary demands upon its resources.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑The gentleman speaks of devoting one-half of the income to education. I want to ask him if he is not overlooking the income of about $300,000 from license taxes, which is being increased every year by the organization of new corporations?

MR. WALKER– I recognize there are some sources of income that are not included in this provision, but this provision affects


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

the great source of income of the State of Alabama, and it is a final and irrepealable appropriation to one specific purpose, and I submit that it is unwise for this Convention to put the State of Alabama irretrievably in that position, and I hope that this Convention will pause, and will not lay down a rule for the State of Alabama which no prudent individual would lay down for himself and will not bind Alabama by a rule that no prudent individual would tie himself up with.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑As a general rule, I, for one, would like to see a fixed amount to be provided for the maintenance of the public school made as large as possible. No man is a greater friend to the common schools of Alabama than I am. No man would go further towards appropriating the money from the State treasury towards the education of the children of the State than I would,  but it occurs to me that we ought to be prudent in all things and in attempting to do a good thing, not be led into the error of doing a very bad thing. As every one knows, the proper basis of ascertaining what would be the revenues of the State, is from the tax upon property. Anything in the ways of licenses from new corporations or old corporations, of from other sources, is merely speculative. Those things may pass away, and the State may be thrown absolutely upon the resources of taxing property according to its taxable valuation. Now, let’s see where this would leave us. In the first place, we have provided that the tax limit shall be six and one-half mills. Then this Convention provides that three mills of that six and one-half mills shall be appropriated towards the maintenance of public schools. That does not include, as I understand, the State University, the Agricultural College, the school at Montevallo, and other institutions about over the State. That law now provides that one mill of that tax shall go to the old soldiers of the State. That would be four mills of the 6 1-2 mills that we are permitted to levy. The fixed charge for the interest on our debt is about $448,000, which is about 1  1-2 mills which makes 5 1-2 mills out of the 6 1-2 mills that we are permitted to levy. Then, out of that, we have got to pay for the running expenses of the Government; we have got to pay for the maintenance of the State University; we have got to pay for the maintenance, partially, of the Mechanical and Agricultural College.  We have got to pay for the maintenance of the Girls’ Industrial School.  We have got to pay for the Institution for the Deaf, Dumb and Blind; we have got to pay for the maintenance of the Insane Hospital and for various other items that go to make up the expenses of a great Commonwealth and a great State, and that are absolutely necessary. Mr. President, is it wise? Is it wisdom upon the part of the members of this Convention to so limit the amount to be charged or to be collected from taxes to call the attention of this Convention to one other proposition that we ought to bear in mind as we go along, and that it that our bonded indebtedness


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

is nearing maturity. It behooves us to refund that debt, which we cannot pay; we haven't got a dollar with which to pay it; it has got to be refunded. We have got to borrow either the money to take up these bonds or we have got to make some arrangement by which other people will take up the bonds for us, and it behooves us to make that deal for the issuance of new bonds at as low a rate of interest as possible. I submit it to any business man in this house, if. when the Governor of this State goes to the Governor of this State does to the great financial world and asks that the bonds of this State be floated at a tax limit of only 2 1‑2 mills for all purposes outside of the public schools and old soldiers, our bonds can be floated at as low a rate of interest, as they could if we had a greater margin. Now I would like to see the fixed appropriation for the public schools, at three mills. I would favor that proposition provided we could take the back track upon the taxation proposition and raise the limit again to three fourths of one per cent., but I submit to this Convention that, as business men, with the figures as I have them and I would be glad to be corrected if I am wrong about the matter, because I would be glad to vote for this clause if it can be demonstrated that we can safely do it, but I submit that we ought not to adopt this ordinance unless we have in view a change of tax limit so as to make our credit like Ceasar's wife.  "Above reproach and above suspicion."

MR. JONES (Wilcox)–Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention—

MR. COBB– Will the gentleman yield to me a moment  to amend by striking out these words—  

MR. JONES‑‑ Wait till we get through with the discussion.

MR. COBB– Yes, sir.

MR. JONES– Gentlemen of the Convention, the distinguished delegate from Macon has stated that this is purely a legislative matter and ought not to be in the Constitution at all.

If you will refer to the Constitution of 1875, you will see that there was a provision made at that time, in the depressed condition of the finances of the State, fixing an amount for the school funds. It is Section 5, Article VIII.

"The income arising from the 16th section trust fund, the surplus revenue fund. until it is called for by the United States government. and the funds enumerated in Sections 3 and 4 of this article, with such other moneys, to be not less than $100,000 per annum, as the General Assembly shall provide by taxation or otherwise, shall be applied to the support and maintenance of the public schools, and it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to increase, from time to time, the public fund as the condition of the treasury and the resources of the State will admit."


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

You will see, gentlemen of the Convention, that it is not legislation pure and simple, but that a similar provision was made in the Constitution of 1875, and that $100,000 was appropriated at that time when the State was in a poorer condition to give that $100,000 than it is the amount that the Committee suggests to be appropriated at this time.

MR. HARRISON– What proportion of the revenues of the State at that time did $100,000 amount to and what proportion do you propose to take now?

MR. JONES‑‑‑I haven't it before me now and I would have to look at it.

MR. HARRISON– Is it not a fact that the income then was about $1,000,000  which would be one-tenth, and now you propose to take nearly one-half?

MR. JONES‑I do not recall the amount and haven't it before me. The appropriation that 1s made for the school fund at this time, amounts to about $800,000.  We do not propose to make it larger than that.  It is in fact smaller than the amount that is appropriated at this time, and I ask if the people of Alabama, when they sent us here, believed that we would cut down the appropriations for their common school in this State and make them less than they are thereby diminishing the opportunities of their children to be educated, would ever hate allowed this Convention to be held?

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)–Will the gentleman permit a question ?

MR. JONES‑‑I have but little time and have three to answer and I dislike to refuse, but it would cut off my time too much.  The gentleman from Madison says that it would be imprudent, that we do not know what we are about if we go on and make such a provision as this. The Committee on Taxation when they came in here and asked us to reduce the limit to 65 cents stated it would not interfere in anyway with the amount to be given to the public schools of Alabama. It was that, as much as anything else, that caused this Convention to vote to reduce the taxation. Where is there a man in this Convention, if that committee had come in here and said : "Gentlemen, we wish to reduce the limit of taxation, but will have to reduce your public school fund, and it will prevent the education of the children of Alabama," that would have voted for a decrease of the limit of taxation in Alabama? There is not one. We have had assurance from every man who has investigated the question, that we would have the money to make this appropriation for the public schools, because it is really not as much as the State of Alabama is giving at this time for that purpose.


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

The gentleman who last spoke stated that we could not float our bonds. That if the Governor were to go and tell prospective purchasers of our bonds, that we were giving three mills for the purposes of education in Alabama, that we were taking one mill for the old soldiers and that left only two and a half mills, that the bonds could not be floated.  What is the history of floating bonds?  Don't you know that the longer time they have to run, the better they will sell? Alabama has always maintained her credit, and the Governor could assure those who wanted to purchase these bonds, that the credit of Alabama was safe now, that it would be good in future, that the interest on these bonds would be paid annually or semi‑annually, and nobody would object at all. In fact all they would want to know would be that the interest on these bonds would be paid promptly.

Those are the argument; that have been offered by the other side in opposition to this appropriation, and I say we can safely do it.  I think it is a better plan than we have now.  It has a sliding scale. It is a provision, if Alabama should prosper beyond what we believe now, but which it may be possible in future, that the Legislature call even increase; and if the money, is in the Treasury and it could be increased, the people would detained that their school system be made better than it is now. I know that at first blush, without investigation, it would seem that was a large amount, but if you would take the trouble to make the calculation for Yourself. you will see that the three mills the Committee on Education asks is not really what is given by the State of Alabama now.

We cannot afford to say to the people of Alabama that we have come here, and have fixed it so that they cannot have what they have had in the past.

MR. DENT‑I send up an amendment.

MR. COBB‑I withdraw mine.

The amendment by Mr. Dent was read as follows:

"Moved to amend Section 5 of the Article on Education by striking out the following words: ‘Together with the special annual tax of 30 cents on each $100 of taxable property in this State, in lines three and four of said Section. and insert in lieu thereof the following: `Together with such sum as the Legislature may decide.’”

MR. DENT‑ Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention.  I think the reasons that have been given already by the gentlemen who have preceded me in opposition, are strong and unanswerable why we should not put an inelastic provision in the Constitution in reference to this matter. I think further, notwithstanding the criticisms that have been made upon the Legislature of Ala‑


4172                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

bama, that their past course in regard to education shows they can be trusted to come up fully to the ability of Alabama in reference to the amount which will be raised by taxation for the support of the public schools. and I am satisfied that they will in every case raise such an amount and appropriate it for education, as the State can safely permit to be done.

The gentlemen admit that this sum would be smaller than the amount which the Legislature appropriated for education at its last session, and the statement has been made that there should be no efforts to reduce the appropriation for the public schools.  While that is true, and I do not suppose there is any gentleman in this Convention who wishes to do that, it seems to me that this is a matter purely for legislative discretion. Circumstances might arise in which if an absolute and fixed sum was taken from the State of Alabama, it might cripple the State in reference to matters which are really important and perhaps more necessary than the matter of education, matters of necessity which could not be left undone.

Now I am not wedded to the words which I ask to add there.  I do not insist that those words should be stricken out, and I will read them again in order that the delegates may understand.  Beginning in line 3, my amendment proposes to strike from lines three and four these words: "Together with the special annual tax of 30 cents on each $100 of taxable property in this State."

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑You strike out the guarantee of $100,000 in the old Constitution in your amendment, do you not, and leave the people without any guarantee at all as a constitutional school fund?

MR. DENT‑I will reply to that. As I started to say, when I was interrupted by the gentleman from Talladega, I am not wedded to the words which I propose to insert in lieu thereof and it is an easy matter to divide this question, and take a vote first upon the motion to strike out, and then upon the motion to insert, and I would not object to placing it at $100 ,000 or perhaps more, but I do not think that is necessary in view of the history of legislation in Alabama upon the subject of education in past years. It seems to me the Legislature can be safely trusted to appropriate every dollar that can be spared from the income of the State of Alabama to educate the children of this State, and while I would not object to any sum in reason, I believe it is a matter that can be safely left to the Legislature, but, if the majority of the Convention think otherwise, it is an easy matter to divide the question, and take a vote, and strike out separately, and then take a vote upon the motion to insert, and if they want to amend that it can be done.


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

MR. FITTS ‑I agree with the idea that has been expressed here, that upon this subject nothing should be done except what is safe and conservative, and the question comes back at last to whether or not this provision, as reported by the Committee on Education, in view of the past history of the State, and in view of its future certain prospects, and in view of the system that has already, grown up, is safe and conservative. The mere fact that the Constitution of 1875 gave only a guarantee of $100,000 from the general fund for the public school fund is no safe light to guide our feet upon this occasion, because, since that time, the income of the State from all sources has steadily increased, and with that steady increase, there has been a steadily disposition on the part of the government of the State to devote just about one-half of its gross income from all sources to the support of the public schools.  And it so happens that in late years the income of the State has ranged at about $1,800,000 and there has been appropriated for the public schools of the State just about one-half of that total income, or about $900,000, and that has gone on successively arid easily, and it has been found that the State has not suffered by the experience of giving about one-half of its total income to the support of the public schools. Now the unsatisfactory part about that method is that there is nothing steady and certain in the growth and progress of these public schools under that system. The Department of Education feels a constant restraint, not knowing what the next legislature will do in that regard. The proposition here, so far from being non-elastic, as the distinguished gentleman from Barbour has urged, is steady, certain, and at the same time, elastic, and it is doing no more for the public schools than has been done in the past. The public schools are not asking by this section anything additional. The Committee is not giving them anything in addition to what they have enjoyed for snore than a decade in the past, for they have been getting relatively more than half of the income of the State, but this is the good feature in this section as reported and a beneficial feature. While for the present, it sets the public schools back something like $40,000 or $50,000, it puts the public. school system upon a solid, constitutional and growing foundation. It says to the public school system, to the people of the State and to the children of the State, and those of succeeding generations, that your position is fixed, that for the time being there has been a decrease, but in exchange for that, the public school system is put upon a permanent constitutional basis whereby its proportionate part of the public income is fixed, and as stated if the revenues increase, as it will increase, for the State is full of promise of future progress, this fund will increase steadily and with elasticity, to meet the growing conditions of each succeeding generation. So far from the idea being well taken that it is hide-bound and non-elastic and does not give in its action, it is the very thing that meets the needs of the situation, because of the fact that


4174                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

there has already grown up an unwritten precedent that the legislature is going to appropriate and the public drafts for revenue are fixed upon the theory that the legislature is going to appropriate one-half of the income of the State to the schools. This just fixes the three mills permanently and forever so that progress can be made, so that school houses can be built, teachers employed and new fields opened up, and progress made, with a certainty of the foothold upon which we stand. It is not radical it is not different, it is not any harder upon the income of the State than what has been done for the past ten years. It is simple, steady, certain, and fixes a constitutional standard of what the public schools are to get out of the total income of the State, leaving room for the growth of the public schools, the certainty of their progress as the State progresses, and relieving; the public school system if the necessity of coming before each legislature as they successively convene and asking for a distribution of the income if the State at their hands, which is troublesome to the legislature, embarrassing to the best interest of education and is a hindrance to true progress along that line. Now the question occurs, and is suggested to me by this note handed me by some delegate, as to whether or not if this is done, the thirty-five cents that remains, or the three mills and one-half that remain, will afford a sufficient income for the State, and for taking care of the bonded indebtedness of the State.

By an ordinance already passed here by constitutional enactment, already made, the present bonded indebtedness of the State, or the $8,000,000 of it, which matures in 1906, is to be refunded, and it will become a fifty-year obligation.  There is every prospect that it will be refunded at 3 1-2 or at most 4 per cent interest, reducing the fixed charges of the State in that particular to a considerable extent.  There is no reason to expect that the assessed value of property will decrease, but there is every reason to believe and expect that it will increase.  There is every reason to expect that the fixed income of the State from licences and other sources, which aggregate a considerable amount, will decrease, but we have every reason to believe and expect that it will increase.  Furthermore, as an answer to the whole proposition there is no reason to expect that there will be any backward step taken in this State in regard to the public schools.  This Convention was called with the distinct understanding that there will not be.  'The history of the past ten years shows that there will not be and the certain expectation of the future points to the fact that, even if you do not fix this rate in the Constitution, after a sharp controversy, it may be, but nevertheless, certainly there will be a distribution substantially along this line, at the hands of the legislature. If that is the case, if that is what the policy of this State is, if that is what is to be expected in the future, then what is the objection to writing this distribution down in the Constitution,


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

allowing the State to adjust its charges to 3 1‑2 mills and allowing the public school system to adjust its growth and progress to three mills? It settles the whole question. It removes the whole question from disturbing politics. It fixes the income of the public schools. Its part of what is wrung from the people and every man that pays his taxes from this time on will know what he is paying it for, that he is paying three mills of it for the public schools and three and one-half mills for the other expenses of the government. He will have a more watchful and more discriminative understanding of the government of his State and it will accomplish in a more satisfactory what is the fixed policy of the State.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑I have an amendment.

The Secretary read the amendment as follows : "Amendment to the amendment by Mr. Samford:  Amend by adding at the end of the section the following, `and all revenue arising from the sale of fertilizer tag tax in excess of the cost of analysis, shall be made into part of the public school fund.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)– I ask the gentleman to with draw that in order that we may discuss the main question. The gentleman from Randolph desires to discuss it on the basis of the report.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM‑ The Chair will state that while the question is on the amendment to the amendment, the Chair is not restricting the delegate.

MR. HANDLEY‑I see from what has been said by some of the distinguished speakers that preceded me, that there seems to be some apprehension in the minds of many of the delegates as to whether the State, at the reduced rate of taxation of 6 1‑2 mills, can meet the obligations of the State, including the school tax.  Now, and I went to state, sir, that I was on the Committee on Taxation, and I went to the Treasurer and to the Auditor's office. I got the Auditor's report; and then we summoned one of the best financial men connected with that office and brought him before the committee and took his evidence, and he stated that we could, with propriety, reduce the taxes from 7 1‑2 mills to 6 1‑2 mills. That is not all. I found that the increased valuation of property in the State of Alabama for taxation for the last five or six years has greatly increased, and the amount in 1900 amounted to two hundred and sixty-six millions of dollars. Our distinguished chairman of the Taxation Committee applied to all the Judges of Probate in Alabama to know what the increase would be for 1901, and they reported from twelve millions to fifteen millions of dollars of increase for 1901. That is not all. A gradual increase will come from year to year, and by the time we commence collecting the tax of 6 1‑2 mills, we will collect more money at that rate than we collected last year at 7 1‑2 mills. Why? Because the last


4176                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

Legislature passed an act that the tax rate of 7 1‑2 mills would be for the neat two years, and hence it will be three years before we collect the tax at 6 1‑2 mills. Now, Mr. President, before we commence collecting that tax at 6 1‑2 mills, the increased valuation. of property in the State of Alabama, for taxation will amount to more than three hundred millions of dollars, and, in my opinion, before this new Constitution is displaced by another one in the State of Alabama, that it will amount to five hundred millions of dollar.   I am not one of those that get out of heart so quick.  What is the condition of affairs today? The last Legislature appropriated over $500,000, and the State 'Treasurer has virtually paid that debt and paid the July interest on the bonded debt, and second quarter school fund, and today there is 1n the treasury between $800,000 and $900,000.   That is the condition of affairs, and with a tax collected about 6 1-2 mills, after two years, there will be a large surplus in the treasury, unless we should have a Legislature that would give it away, and I do not apprehend that we will ever see such another Legislature, but I believe that the people will send men here who will guard the treasury instead of distributing its funds.

MR.  GRAHAM (Talladega)–Will the gentleman permit a question?  I want to know, if the gentleman does not think it should not be appropriated?

MR. HANDLEY‑I do. It is the grandest thing, in my mind, that has happened here.  I am in favor of 3 mills for school purposes.  It will be a grand thing to increase the popularity of the Constitution and secure its ratification all over Alabama ; the white people everywhere will endorse it, especially in the hill counties in Alabama.  Now, we have been told that in 1901-and we have very good authority, the Judges of Probate in the counties-that we will have an increased valuation this year of from twelve millions to fifteen millions of dollars over the last year.  That is not all.  We estimate that these cotton mills that have been built ; we estimate the cost of forty millions of dollars, and they will gradually come in for taxation by the degrees.  That is not all.  Here we are about to refund the debt of the State, eight or nine millions of  dollars, and, gentlemen of the Convention, I give it as my opinion that we can refund the debt at fifty years at three per cent ; I give that as my opinion.  I know something about the condition of affairs in the financial world, and give it as my opinion that we can refund that debt at three per cent, or at three and one-half per cent, anyhow. Now, if this be so, there will be saving there on interest of from one to two hundred thousand dollars a year for the State of Alabama.  Then we have a saving of a half million dollars from appropriations by the Legislature; then we have a saving a great deal from increased valuation. This will give us a big margin, a grand margin, to perform with, and I regard it as being a certainty that the State of Alabama will be able to


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

meet all her obligations, every one of them, and meet this obligation, too. Now, think about the cotton mills, forty millions of dollars will soon come in. Now, up here in Walker County the other day a Pittsburg syndicate came forward and bought $3,000,000 worth of coal lands, and that kill bring in taxes and there will be a grand increase throughout the whole country, in my opinion.

M R. SAMFORD (Pike)‑Permit me to ask a question. Was not that $3,000,000 worth of land here all the time before the Pittsburg syndicate bought it?

MR.  HANDLEY‑ Its valuation was not there before, and now they have a valuation on it that amounts to a good deal.  There is another thing, if we are only going to have legislative sessions once in four years, that will be a saving to the State of Alabama of from $50.000 to $100,000, and many other things that I could mention. Why, I tell you that the time will come when Birmingham, and that mineral district surrounding it, will pay almost half of the taxes of the State of Alabama. When I first went to Birmingham, I got me a turnout and went and looked at Red Mountain, and I sale a crop that never could be gathered, that was matured and inexhaustible; I saw a crop that all the men that Generals Lee and Grant commanded in the war could not gather in a thousand years : I saw the lime, ore, and then the lime and the sand, and the coal‑ all that surrounding country there.  The truth is in going up this grand Red Mountain, which is said to be seventy miles long, and half a mile high, in going up this grand mountain the veins of iron ore protruded out twenty-two feet to the front, and went in the direction of China at about an angle of forty-five degrees, and then went up, the mountain at about forty-five degrees, and it was 200 or 300 feet to the top of the mountain, it was just simply immense.  Dr. Caldwell, President of the Elyton Land Company, bored a well about a mile beyond that mountain, and bored it about 2,000 feet deep, and on the route he went through that vein of ore, 100 feet. How can you estimate the value of such property as exists there? It is just wonderful.  I live in a cotton country, I thought to myself if I had ,35,000 square miles here in cotton, and it was about six feet high and open to the top and had 25,000 hands to pick it and another lot doing the ginning, and another lot doing the selling, that that would be something in comparison to the mineral district about Birmingham.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑Will the gentleman permit a question ? I would like him to tell the Convention how he will ever get that property assessed for taxation at its true value ?

MR. HANDLEY‑ It never been and never will be in my opinion. It is simply grand to think about it, the value of that property, and that surrounding district. No one can imagine its value. Men that have been living on it and about it do not know


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

anything about its value. they just guess at it and do the best they can, but when they come to value it for taxation they do about like other people in the State fully as well.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM‑ The gentleman's time has expired.

MR. O'NEAL— I move that the gentleman's time be extended.  He does not often trouble us.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑After consultation I desire to ask unanimous consent to withdraw the amendment that I just sent up.

Unanimous consent was accorded, and the amendment withdrawn.

MR. O'NEAL‑I move that the gentleman's time be extended ten minutes.

The motion was adopted.

MR. HANDLEY‑ Mr. President, I want to state that I feel a great interest in the public schools of Alabama, and I will state the Committee on Education has done its duty, and I shall vote for Section 5. I shall vote for it, heartily knowing that the State is well provided for and can pay it and every other debt she may owe at the time, and I hope that the members of this Convention will favor the report of this Committee.

MR. SAMFORD‑I just want to ask one question. I have great respect for the gentleman's financial ability, and I want to ask him if he has made personal examination in this, State, and if  he states it to this Convention that the State can safely do this  after an investigation of its finances?

MR. HANDLEY‑ Certainly, it was the business of our Committee to lock into the matter thoroughly.

 MR. SAMFORD‑ Did you do it?

MR. HANDLEY‑ Most emphatically, we did— of course we did not do anything with our eyes closed. (Applause.)

MR. O'NEAL‑ Was not your estimate based on the assumption that the prosperity which now exists would continue? Did you take into consideration financial panics, financial crisis and things of that character?

MR. HANDLEY— I will state if it were not to increase a particle that the State is in a condition today to meet this thin just like it is. I know what I am talking about, because I tell you I went to the Treasurer's office and ascertained the amount of money on hand and' if the interest on the bonds had been met, and the school fund distributed. They told me yes, and on the first


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

of July there was $900,000 and upwards on hand. And the 1st of August there was upwards of $800,000 on hand, and we are to collect taxes at three-quarters of 1 per cent, for two years. We will have a grand surplus at the end of two years. If it is not distributed by the Legislature, we will have a grand surplus and pay all debts, and pay the interest on the bonds, and we have several items of savings to the State of Alabama that will be a grand increase to the State, and there will continue to be an increase in my opinion, and above everything, if everything else were to fail. it is the duty of this Convention to take care of the educational interests of the State of Alabama at all hazards.

MR. HOOD‑ May I ask the gentleman a question? They are about to strike oil near Birmingham, are they not?

MR. HANDLEY‑ There are some preparations being made in North Alabama and it is not at all unreasonable to believe that they may strike it, but I make no brag on that, we might bore a well for oil and miss it four hundred miles and then again we might strike it. I just want to say that I hope this Convention will vote for the report of the Committee on this Section 5. The State will be in no danger whatever. I understand our finances, and I understand our condition, and she can meet every obligation that she owes, and also make this appropriation of three mills for all future time to come for the education of the people in the State of Alabama.

MR. BURNS‑Is it not a fact that in the city of Birmingham real estate is not taxed for more than one-half of its real value

MR. HANDLEY‑ How is it in your county? (Cheers and laughter.)

MR. GREER (Calhoun)‑Mr. President, I am in favor of the common people of Alabama. I rise to support the report of the Committee and to oppose the amendment offered by the delegate from Barbour. Now, Mr. President, in the first place it is the duty of the State of Alabama to educate its citizens. If the amendment offered by the delegate from Barbour should pass, and the expectation of my distinguished friend from Randolph, should not be realized, with ten mills reduction in the tax rate in Alabama it would mean in my honest judgment two hundred and fifty thousand dollars taken out of the common schools of Alabama.  Now, Mr. President, of the present amount appropriated about forty thousand dollars of that fund goes to the normal schools of Alabama, and then with the tax rate reduced and for the schools to get only the amount which is left, it would mean in round numbers three hundred thousand dollars taken from the common schools of Alabama. In all seriousness and in all earnestness. I ask the gentlemen of this Convention can they afford to deprive the people in the country districts of means of an education. You


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OFFICIAL. PROCEEDINGS

have placed and I have voted to place upon the people after a few years an educational qualification for suffrage, and it is our duty to provide the means for that education, for the boys and girls who live in the country districts of Alabama. They expect it—  they demand nothing more-nothing less. You who live in the towns and have your magnificent school system won't feel this as we do in the country, you who live in the favored districts where you have special schools, will not feel it, but, gentlemen, we who live in the country have no other source, no other means by which we can educate our boys and girls than the common schools, and I beg you in behalf of those boys and those girls to fix in the Constitution this three mill tax. It is not an increase of the present amount that we receive, on the contrary, it is a reduction of thirty thousand dollars, and yet we are willing to stand that, but we leg you not to say that the reduction of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars shall come out of us ‑if it is to come from anywhere, if it is necessary ‑and gentlemen, who have studied that question say we will have ample fund to meet all obligations, but if we should not I beg you not to take it from the common schools in Alabama. I voted I want to say, against this reduction because I feared at the time that it would have to come from the common schools of Alabama, that it would be the means of depriving the boys and girls in the country districts of an education, or else it would have to come from the amount you are giving to the old maimed acid disabled Confederate soldier. We can never, never consent to that. But of the two propositions there is the lame and disabled Confederate soldier to be provided for, it is true they are old and decrepit anal are unable to earn a living but they have the best years of their lives for their country. These young boys coining up are the hope of our country, they must be educated, that they may make useful men, and if you take from them the opportunities of an education you need not expect them to be educated.  I want to say to you gentlemen, when you go before the people in the country districts you cannot meet the argument that you did not fix the amount of the school fund, that you have fixed an educational qualification for suffrage and yet you refused‑

MR. COBB‑I wish to ask the gentleman a question. I simply want to know who it is upon this floor that is proposing to take anything from the common schools?

MR. GREER‑I will answer the question, Mr. President. The amendment of the gentleman from Barbour says in words or substance, that only such amount shall be appropriated for common schools as is left after all other appropriations have been made. I would like to ask the gentleman if he has any objection to stating to the people just what he proposes to do. If you are not going to take anything from the common school, then you should not


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

refuse to state to the people of Alabama in Convention assembled that you do not propose to do so.

MR. COBB‑I say I do not propose to do so. The difference between us is. I think this is a legislative matter and I do not believe that any Legislature which would assemble in Alabama would refuse.

MR. GREER‑I will ask the gentleman if he has not been supporting some matters pertaining to legislation in this Convention?

MR. COBB‑I have seen legislative matters passed here, but I think that the Legislature of Alabama is amply competent to take care of the public schools.

MR. GREER‑I yielded to a question, not for a debate. I am sure that it touched the gentleman in a tender spot. I and not surprised that he arose to a question and then endeavored to debate. I want to say to you gentlemen when you touch the common school fund, the public schools of Alabama, you touch me, and touch every other friend to the common school in Alabama. because you touch the boys and girls who live in the rural district of Alabama, who will be unable to obtain an education unless you provide the means here. I believe the fertilizer tag tax amendment has been withdrawn‑ well, that is all right, we hope to get that in at the proper time. I will not discuss that. Now, sir, there were pledges, I do not say publicly made, but pledges were made to members in this Convention that the public schools would be taken care of when the tax rate was reduced ‑because it was feared that the reduction of ten mills would come from the public schools.  I want to say if you go to the people in the country with that reduction, without making the provision that we ask, you cannot meet the argument, they will not endorse your action. I want to tell the other gentlemen on the floor of this Convention that  I appreciate more than words can express the speech given on the floor of this Convention by the distinguished delegate from Tuscaloosa. I appreciate it, and the people in the rural districts will appreciate it, and will reward with full appreciation all efforts made by the delegates of this Convention to maintain the present public school systems in Alabama. Now as to the contention that it is legislative. Mr. President, if it be legislative I want to say that it is legislation of the highest class and we ought to consider well and to consider fully before we refuse to adopt it. I again appeal to you in behalf of the boys in the rural districts, who will be disfranchised by this Convention unless you give them means of an education. I appeal to you in their behalf to provide means to educate the boys and girls and all will be well.

MR. O'NEAL— I have an amendment which I think the gentleman from Barbour will agree to accept. It is an amendment for his.


4182                                          

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

MR. DENT‑I wish to hear it read.

The Secretary read the amendment as follows: "By striking out the word; ‘together with the special annual tax of thirty cents on each one hundred dollars of taxable property in this State.' insert in lieu thereof: `such other moneys to be not less than one hundred thousand dollars per annum as the General Assembly shall provide by taxation or otherwise."

The President resumed the chair.

MR. O’NEAL -The amendment is just the same as the old Constitution.

MR. DENT-I am perfectly willing to accept that.

MR. PRESIDENT‑‑ The gentleman asks unanimous consent.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑I object.

THE PRESIDENT‑ Does the gentleman offer his amendment as an amendment to the amendment?

  MR. O’NEAL-Yes, sir.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question will be on the amendment to the amendment to the report of the committee.

The hour of one o'clock having arrived the Convention adjourned.

__________

AFTERNOON SESSION.

The Convention met pursuant to adjournment, there being ninety-two delegates present upon the call of the roll.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑I desire to ask unanimous consent to make a report from the Committee on Engrossment, and call up the ordinances and have them passed.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The Chairman of the Committee asks unanimous consent to make report from the Committee on Engrossment

Consent was given.

The Secretary read as follows

Mr. President : We, your Committee on Engrossment, beg leave to report that we have examined and compared the following ordinance, articles and resolutions. to wit:

 On amending the constitution.

Relating to the Bonded Indebtedness of the State.


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

On Miscellaneous Provisions.

Ordinance 409.

Representation.

Exemptions.

Municipal Corporations.

Resolution No. 188.

And find the same to be correct.

Wm. H. Samford,

Chairman on Committee on Engrossment.

AN ORDINANCE

To Prescribe the Mode in Which the Constitution flay be Amended.

Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled, that Article XVII of the Constitution lie stricken out and the following Article inserted in lieu thereof :

ARTICLE VXII.

Mode of Amending the Constitution.

1. Amendments may be proposed to this Constitution by the General Assembly in the manner following: The proposed amendments shall be read in the house in which they originate on three several days, and if, upon the third reading, three-fifths of all the members elected to that house shall vote in favor thereof, the proposed amendments shall be sent to the other house in which they shall likewise be read on three several days, and if, upon the third reading, three-fifths of all the members elected to that house shall vote in favor of the proposed amendments, the General Assembly shall order an election by the qualified electors of the State upon such proposed amendments, to be held either at the general election next succeeding the session of the General Assembly at which the amendments are proposed or up another day appointed by the General Assembly not less than three months after adjournment of the session of the General Assembly at ,which the amendments are proposed.  Notice of such election, together with the proposed amendments, shall be given lay proclamation of the Governor, which shall be published in every county in such manner as the General Assembly shall direct,  for at least eight weeks, successively, next preceding the day appointed for such election.  On the day so appointed, an election shall be held for the vote of the proposed amendment. If such election be held on the day of the general election, the officers of the general election shall open a poll for the vote of the qualified electors on the proposed amend‑


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

ments; if it be held on a day other than that of a general election, officers for such election shall be appointed, and the election shall be held, in all things in accordance with the law governing general elections. In all elections upon such proposed amendments, the votes cast thereat shall be canvassed, tabulated and returns thereof made to the Secretary of the State, and counted, in the same manner as is done in elections for representatives in the General Assembly. and if it shall thereupon appear that a majority of the qualified electors who voted at such election upon the proposed amendments voted in favor of the same, such amendments shall be valid to all intents and purposes as parts of this Constitution.  The result of such election shall be made known by proclamation of the Governor; provided, that representation in the Legislature shall be based upon population and such basis of representation shall not be changed by constitutional amendment.

2.  Upon the ballots to be used at all elections provided for in section 1, of this Article,  the substance or subject matter of each proposed amendment shall be printed, so that the nature thereof shall be clearly indicated. Following each proposed amendment on the ballot shall be printed the word "Yes." And immediately following that shall be printed the word "No." The choice of the elector shall be indicated by a cross mark before the answer he desires, and no amendment shall be adopted unless it receives the affirmative vote of a majority of all the qualified electors who vote at such election.

3. No Convention shall hereafter be held for the purpose of altering or amending the Constitution of this State unless, after the General Assembly, by a vote of a majority of all the members elected to each house, has passed an act or resolution calling a convention for such purpose, the question of Convention or no Convention shall first be submitted to a vote of all the qualified electors of the State and approved by a majority of those voting at such election. No act or resolution of the General Assembly calling, a Convention for the purposes of altering or amending the Constitution of this State shall be repealed, except upon the vote of a majority of all the members elected to each house at the same session at which such act or resolution was passed. Provided, nothing herein contained shall be construed as restricting the jurisdiction and power of the Convention, when duly assembled, in pursuance of this section, to establish such ordinances and to do and perform such things as to the Convention may seem necessary or proper to alter, revise or amend the existing Constitution.

4.  All votes of the General Assembly upon proposed amendments to this Constitution, and upon bills or resolutions calling, a Convention for the purpose or altering or amending the Constitution of this State, shall be taken by yeas and nays and entered on the journals. No act or resolution of the General Assembly, passed


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

in accordance with the provisions of this article proposing amendments to this Constitution, or calling a Convention for the purpose of altering or amending the Constitution of this State. shall  be submitted for the approval of the Governor, but shall be valid without his approval.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM. ‑The question will be upon the adoption of the article as read. As many as favor the adoption of the article will say aye and as many as are opposed will say no, as voter names are called.

Upon the call of the roll the vote resulted as follows :

AYES.

Messrs. President,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Parker (Cullman),

Altman,

Greer, of Perry,

Pettus,

Almon,

Haley,

Pillans,

Ashcraft,

Handley,

Pitts,

Barefield,

Harrison,

Proctor,

Beddow,

Heflin, of Randolph,

Reese,

Bethune,

Henderson,

Rogers (Lowndes),

Blackwell,

Hood,

Samford,

Bootle,

Howze,

Sanders.

Brook s,

Inge,

Sanford,

Browne,

Tones, of Bibb,

Searcy,

Bulger,

Jones, of Wilcox,

Smith (Mobile),

Burnett,

Kirk,

Smith, Mac. A.,

Burns,

Knight,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Cardon,

Ledbetter,

Stewart,

Chapman,

Lomax,

Thompson,

Coleman. of Greene,

Lowe (Lawrence),

Vaughan,

Coleman, of Walker,

Macdonald,

Waddell,

Craig,

Malone,

Walker,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Maxwell,

Watts,

Davis, of Etowah,

Merrill,

Weakley,

Dent,

Miller (Marengo),

White,

Eley,

Miller (Wilcox),

Whiteside,

Eyster,

Moody,

Williams (Barbour),

Espy,

Norwood,

Williams (Marengo),

Foster,

Oates,

Wilson (Clarke),

Glover,

O'Neal (Lauderdale),

Wilson (Washington),

Graham, of Talladega,

O'Rear,

Winn.

Grant.

Palmer,

Total‑86.

NOES.

Bartlett,

Grayson,

Phillips,

Byars,

Long, (Walker),

Porter.

Foshee,

Total‑7.


4186                                          

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING.

Banks,

Howell.

Opp,

Beaver,,

Jackson,

Parker (Elmore).

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Jenkins,

Pearce,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Jones, of Hale,

Renfro,

Carnathon,

Jones of Montgomery,

Reynolds (Chilton),

Case,

King,

Reynolds (Henry),

Cobb,

Kirkland,

Robinson,

Cofer,

Kyle,

Rogers (Sumter),

Cornwall,

Leigh,

Selheimer,

Cunningham,

Locklin,

Sentell,

deGraffenreid,

Long (Butler),

Sloan,

Duke,

Lowe (Jefferson),

Sollie,

Ferguson,

McMillan (Baldwin),

 Sorrell,

Fills,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Spears,

Fletcher,

Martin,

Spragins,

Freeman,

Morrisette,

Studdard

Gilmore,

Mulkey,

Tayloe,

Graham, of Montgomery,

Murphree,

Weatherly,

Heflin, ()f Chambers,

NeSmith,

Willet,

Hinson,

Norman,

Williams (Elmore),

Hodges,

O'Neill (Jefferson),

And the article was adopted.

The clerk read the engrossed article on Representation as follows:

ARTICLE—

Section 1. The whole number of Senators shall not be less than one fourth or more than one-third of the whole number of Representatives.

Sec.  2.  The House of Representatives shall consist of not more than one hundred and five members, unless new counties are creater, in which event each new county shall be entitled to one Representative.  The members of the House of Representatives shall be appointed by the General Assembly among the several counties of the State, according to the number of inhabitants in them respectively, as ascertained by the decennial census of the United States, which apportionment when made shall not be subject to alteration until the next session of the General Assembly after the next decennial census of the United States shall have been taken.

Sec. 3. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly at its first session after the taking of the decennial census of the United States in the year 1910, and after each subsequent decennial census to fix by law the number of Representatives, and apportion them among the several counties of the State, according to the number


4187

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

of inhabitants in them respectively; provided, that each county shall be entitled to at least one Representative.

Sec. 4. It shall be the duty of the General Assembly at its first session after the taking of the decennial census of the United States in the year 1910, and after each subsequent decennial census, to fix by law the number of Senators, and to divide the State into as many Senatorial districts as there are Senators, which districts shall be as nearly equal to each other in the number of inhabitants as may be, and each shall be entitled to one Senator and no more; and which districts when formed shall not be changed until the next apportioning session of the General Assembly after the next decennial census of the United States shall have been taken; provided, that counties created after the next preceding apportioning session of the General Assembly, may be attached to Senatorial districts. No county shall be divided between two districts, and no districts shall be made up of two or more counties not contiguous to each other,

Sec. 5. Should the decennial census of the United States from any cause not he taken, or if when taken the same, as to this State, is not full and satisfactory, the General Assembly shall have power at its first session after the time shall have elapsed for the taking of said census to provide for an enumeration of all the inhabitants of this State, and once in each ten years thereafter. upon which it shall be the duty of the General Assembly to make the apportionment of Representatives and Senators as provided for in this article.

Sec. 6. Until the General Assembly shall make an apportionment of representatives among the several counties, at its first session after the taking of the decennial census of the United States in the year 1910, as herein provided, the counties of Autauga, Baldwin, Bibb, Blount, Cherokee, Chilton, Choctaw, Clay, Cleburne, Coffee. Colbert, Conecuh, Coosa, Covington, Crenshaw, Cullman, Dale, DeKalb, Escambia, Fayette, Franklin, Geneva, Greene, Lamar, Lawrence, Limestone, Macon, Martin, Marshall, Monroe, Pickens, Randolph, St. Clair, Shelby, Washington and Winston shall each leave one Representative ; the counties of Barbour, Bullock, Butler, Calhoun, Chambers, Clarke, Elmore, Etowah, Hale, Henry, Jackson, Lauderdale, Lee, Lowndes, Madison, Marengo, Morgan, Perry, Pike, Russell, Sumter, Talladega, Tallapoosa, Tuscaloosa, Walker and Wilcox shall each have two Representatives; the counties of Dallas and Mobile shall each have three Representatives, and the county of Jefferson shall have seven Representatives.

Sec. 7. Until the General Assembly shall divide the State into Senatorial districts, as herein provided, the Senatorial districts shall be as follows: First District, Lauderdale and Limestone, Second District, Lawrence and Morgan; Third District, Blount, Cullman and Winston; Fourth District, Madison; Fifth District, Jackson


4188                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

and Marshall ; Sixth District, Etowah and St. Clair; Seventh District, Calhoun; Eighth District, Talladega; Ninth District, Chambers and Randolph; Tenth District, Tallapoosa and Elmore ; Eleventh District, Tuscaloosa; Twelfth District, Fayette, Lamar and Walker ; Thirteenth District. Jefferson; fourteenth District, Pickens and Sumter ; Fifteenth District, Autauga, Chilton and Shelby; Sixteenth District, Lowndes ; Seventeenth District, Butler, Conecuh and Covington ; Eighteenth District, Bibb and Perry ; Nineteenth District, Choctaw, Clarke and Washington ; Twentieth District, Marengo ; Twenty-first District, Baldwin, Escambia and Monroe ; Twenty-second District, Wilcox; Twenty-third District, Dale and Geneva, Twenty-fourth District, Barbour; Twenty-fifth District.  Coffee, Crenshaw and Pike; Twenty-sixth district, Bullock and Macon; Twenty-seventh District, Lee and Russell; Twenty-eighth  District, Montgomery ; Twenty-ninth District, Cherokee and DeKalb ; Thirtieth District, Dallas; Twenty-first District, Colbert, Franklin and Marion ; Thirty-second District, Greene and Hale; Thirty-third District, Mobile; Thirty-fourth District, Cleburne, Clay and Coosa; Thirty-fifth District, Henry.

PRESIDENT PRO TEM-The question is upon the passage of the Article on Representation.  The Secretary will call the roll.

The result of the call of the roll was as follows :

AYES.

Messrs. President.

Craig,

Howze

 

Altman,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Inge,

Almon,

Davis, of Etowah.

Jones, of Bibb,

Ashcraft,

Dent,

Jones, of Wilcox,

Banks,

Eley,

Kirk,

Barefield,

Eyster.

Knight,

Beavers,

Espy,

Ledbetter,

Beddow,

Kitts.

Locklin,

Bethune,

Foster,

Lomax,

Blackwell,

Freeman.

Long (Walker),

Boone,

Glover,

Lowe (Jefferson),

Brooks,

Graham, of Montgomery

MacDonald,

Browne,

Graham, of Talladega,

Malone,

Bulger,

Grant,

Martin,

Burnett,

Grayson.

Maxwell,

Burns,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Merrill,

Cardon,

Greer, of Perry,

Miller ( Marengo ) .

Carmichael, of Colbert.

Haley,

Miller (Wilcox),

Chapman,

Handley,

Moody,

Cobb,

Harrison,

Murphree,

Coleman, of Greene,

Heflin. of Randolph,

NeSmith,

Coleman, of Walker,

Henderson,

Norman,

Cornwall,

Hood.

Norwood,


4189

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

Oates,

Rogers (Lowndes),

Thompson,

O'Neal (Lauderdale),

Samford,

Vaughan,

Opp,

Sanders,

Waddell,

O'Rear,

Sanford,

Walker,

Palmer,

Searcy,

Watts,

Parker (Cullman),

Selheimer,

Weakley,

Parker (Elmore),

Smith (Mobile),

White,

Pettus,

Smith, Mac. A.,

Whiteside,

Phillips,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Williams (Barbour),

Pillans,

Sollie,

Williams (Marengo),

Pitts,

Spears,

Wilson (Clarke),

Proctor,

Spragins,

Wilson (Washington),

Reese,

Stewart,

Winn.

Total‑108.

NOES.

Byars,

Porter,

Foshee,

Total‑3.

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING.

Bartlett,

Jackson,

Pearce,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Jenkins,

Renfro,

Carnathon,

Jones, of Hale,

Reynolds (Chilton),

Case,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Reynolds (Henry),

Cofer,

King,

Robinson,

Cunningham,

Kirkland,

Rogers (Sumter),

De Graffenreid,

Kyle,

Sentell,

Duke,

Leigh,

Sloan,

Ferguson,

Long (Butler),

Sorrell,

Fletcher,

Lowe (Lawrence),

Studdard,

Gilmore,

McMillan (Baldwin),

Tayloe,

Heflin, of Chambers,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Weatherly,

Hinson,

Morrisette,

Willet,

Hodges,

Mulkey,

Williams (Elmore).

Howell,

O'Neill (Jefferson),

And the Article was adopted.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I ask unanimous consent to introduce a short resolution for the purpose of having it referred.

There was objection.

MR. O'NEAL‑I move that the rules be suspended in order that the gentleman may offer the resolution.

MR. LONG‑ It is a short resolution and no member on the floor would object to its being referred.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Clerk will read the next Article.


4190                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

MR.  LONG‑I move that the rules be suspended and that I be allowed to introduce this resolution, to be referred to the proper Committee.

MR. O'NEAL,‑I move that the rules be suspended and that the gentleman be allowed to introduce his resolution.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM‑ The question is, shall the rules be suspended.

Upon a vote being taken the rules were suspended.

The Clerk read the resolution introduced by Mr. Long of Walker, as follows

Resolution No. 298, by Mr. Long (Walker):

Whereas, There is a difference of opinion in regard to the selection or election of Circuit or County Solicitors, which has been manifested to such an extent by this Convention as to leave questionable all ideas of compromise on the subject, and to leave doubtful the entire Article on Judiciary.

'Therefore, with the view of harmony and in the interest of the public good,          

Be it resolved by the people of Alabama Convention assembled, That a committee consisting of the President of this Convention, and each Chairman of the several different committees of this Convention be and they are hereby appointed a special Committee to take under advisement the Article tin the judiciary Department as reported by the Committee, and report some method satisfactory for the election of Solicitors by the people or by the Legislature or by appointment, in whole or in part, that will be satisfactory, so that the said Article on Judicial Department may be taken from the table and passed by this Convention.

MR.  LONG‑I ask that it be referred to the Committee on Rules.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM- The Chair thinks that will be the proper place for it and the resolution is so referred .

MR.  SANFORD (Montgomery)-I would like to introduce an ordinance.

There was objection.

MR.  O’NEAL-I move the rules be suspended.  The gentleman has not offered resolutions often, and I think he is entitled to that courtesy.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM- The question is on the suspension of the rules.


4191

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

Upon a vote being taken the rules were suspended.

The Clerk read the resolution introduced by Mr. Sanford of Montgomery, as follows :

Ordinance No. 450, by Mr. Sanford

Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, That no municipality or other political division of this; State shall grant a franchise, or enter into any contract which may endure for fifty years, without first submitting such franchise or contract or proposition for a contract, to the qualified electors of such municipality, or other political division of the State at an election specially held for that purpose, and unless a majority of such electors shall. approve such grant, or contract, the same shall not be made or granted.

Referred to Committee on Municipal Corporations.

The Secretary read the Article on Municipal Corporations as follows :

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS.

Section 1. No person, firm, association or corporation shall be authorized or permitted to use the streets, avenues or alleys and public places of any city, town or village, for the construction or operation of any public utility or private enterprise, without the consent of the proper authorities of such city, town or village, being first had and obtained.

Sec. 2. The General Assembly shall not enact any law which will permit a person, firm, corporation or association of any character to pay privilege license or other tax to the State of Alabama and relieve him or it from the payment of all other privilege and license taxes in the State.

Sec. 3. No county, city, town, village, district or other political subdivision of a county shall have authority, or be authorized by the General Assembly after the ratification of this Constitution to issue bond, unless such issue of bonds shall have first been approved by majority vote by ballot of the qualified electors of such county, city, town, village, district or other political subdivision of a county, voting upon such proposition. In determining the result of any election held for this purpose, no vote shall be counted as an affirmative vote, which does not show on its face that such vote was cast in approval of such issue of bonds. This Section shall not apply to the renewal, refunding or reissue of bonds lawfully issued, nor prevent the issuance of bonds in cases where the same have been authorized by laws enacted prior to the ratification of this Constitution, nor shall this Section apply to obligations incurred or bonds to be issued to procure means to pay for street and sidewalk improvements, or sanitary or storm water servers,


4192                                          

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

the cost of which is to be assessed in whole or in part against the property abutting said improvements, or drained by such sanitary or storm water sewers.  No city, town or other municipality shall make any assessments for the cost of sidewalk or street paving, or for the cost of the construction of any sewers against property abutting on such street or sidewalk so paved or drained by such sewers in excess of the increased value of such property by reason of the special benefits derived from such improvements.

Sec. 4. No city, town or village whose present indebtedness exceeds the limitations imposed by this Constitution, shall be allowed to become indebted in any further amount except as otherwise provided in this Constitution until such indebtedness shall be reduced within such limit, provided, however, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any municipality from issuing bonds in renewal or for the refunding of obligations already existing or from issuing bonds already authorized by law.  Provided the provisions of this section shall not apply to the cities of Sheffield and Tuscumbia.

Sec. 5. No city, town, village or municipal corporation other than provided for in this Article shall levy or collect a higher rate of taxation in any one year on the property situated therein than one-half of one per centum of the value of such property as assessed for State taxation during the preceding year, provided that for the purpose of paying debts existing on the 6th day of December, 1875, and the interest thereon a tax of one per centum may be levied and collected to be applied exclusively to the payment of such indebtedness, and, provided further, that this section shall not apply to the city of Mobile, which city may from and after the ratification of this Constitution, levy a tax not to exceed the rate of three-fourths of one per centum, to pay the expenses of the city government, and may also levy a tax not to exceed three-fourths of one per centum to pay the debt existing on the 6th day of December, 1875, with the interest thereon, or any renewal of such debt, and provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the cities of Birmingham and Huntsville, which cities may levy and collect a tax not to exceed one-half of per centum in addition to the tax of one-half of one per centum as hereinabove allowed to levied and collected, such special tax to be applied exclusively to the payment of interest on the bonds of said cities of Birmingham and Huntsville, as heretofore issued in pursuance of law, or now authorized by law to be issued, and for a sinking fund to pay off said bonds at the maturity thereof, and provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the cities of Troy, Attalla, Gadsden, Bessemer, Woodlawn, Brewton, Pratt City, Ensley and Wylam and Avondale which cities may, form and after the ratification of this Constitution, levy and collect an additional tax not exceeding one-half of one per centum per annum, and provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the cities of De-


4193

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

catur, New Decatur and Cullman, which cities may from and after the ratification of this Constitution levy and collect an additional tax not exceeding three-fourths of one per centum. Such special tax to be applied exclusively to paying the current expenses of the public schools, to public improvements and to the payment of the current expenses of their city governments, but this additional tax shall not be levied unless authorized by a majority vote of the qualified electors voting at a special election held for the purpose of ascertaining whether or not said tax shall be levied, and provided, further, that the purpose for which such special tax is sought to be levied shall be stated in such election call and if authorized, the revenue derived from such tax shall be used for no other purpose than that stated, arid provided, further, that the additional tax authorized to be levied by the city of Troy. shall, when so levied and collected, be used exclusively in payments of bonds and interest coupons thereon hereafter issued in tile adjustment of the present bonded indebtedness of said city. and provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the city of Montgomery, which city shall have the right to levy and collect a tax of not exceeding one-half of one per centum per year upon the value of the taxable property therein, as fixed for State taxation, for general expenses and all additional tax of not exceeding three-fourths of one per centum per year upon the value of the property therein, as fixed for State taxation, to be devoted exclusively to the payment of its public debt, interest thereon and renewal thereof and to the maintenance of its public schools and public conveniences, and provided, further, that this section shall not apply to the town of Andalusia which town may levy and collect a tax not to exceed one-half of one per centum in addition to the tax of one-half of one per centum, as hereinbefore allowed to be levied and collected, such special tax to be applied exclusively to the payment of interest on bonds of said town of Andalusia now authorized by law to be issued. and for a sinking fund to pay off said bonds at the maturity thereof.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM‑ The question is upon the passage of the Article, the ayes and noes are required.  Those in favor of the passage of this Article will aye and those opposed no, as your names are called.

During roll call:

MR.  SANFORD (Montgomery)-I ask unanimous consent to explain my vote.

Leave was granted.

MR. SANFORD‑ Mr. President, there are many sections in this Article which I most heartily approve, but in as much as I pledged the people of Montgomery not to vote for anything that


4194                  

OFFICIAL, PROCEEDINGS

would raise the taxes of the people, I am compelled to vote no, for this does raise the taxes in Montgomery.

MR. COFER‑I desire to change my vote from aye to no.

THE PRESIDENT PRO TEM‑ The Article will be ordered printed and referred to the Committee on Order, Consistency and Harmony of the Whole Constitution.

The President resumed the chair.

The call of the roll resulted as follows

AYES.

Messrs. President,

Graham, of Talladega.

Opp,

Almon.

Grant,

O' Rear,

Altman,

Grayson,

Palmer,

Ashcraft,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Parker, of Cullman.

Banks,

Greer, of Perry,

Parker, of Elmore.

Barefield,

Handley,

Pettus,

Beddow,

Harrison,

Pillans,

Bethune,

Heflin, of Randolph,

Pitts,

Blackwell.

Henderson,

Proctor,

Boone,

Hood,

Rogers, of Lowndes,

Brooks,

Howze,

Samford,

Browne,

Time,

Sanders,

Burnett,

Jones, Bibb,

Searcy,

Burns,

Jones, of Wilcox,

Selheimer,

Cardon,

Kirk,

Smith, of Mobile

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Knight,

Smith, Mac A .,

Chapman,

Ledbetter,

Smith, Morgan M .,

Cobb,

Locklin,

Sollie,

Coleman, of Greene,

Lomax,

Spears,

Coleman, of Walker,

Long, of Walker,

Spragins,

Cornwall,

Lowe, of Jefferson,

Stewart,

Craig.

Macdonald,

Thompson,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Malone,

Vaughan,

Davis, of Etowah,

Martin,

Waddell.

Dent,

Maxwell,

Walker,

Eley,

Merrill,

Watts,

Espy.

Miller, of Marengo,

Weakley,

Eyster,

Miller, Wilcox,

White,

Fitts,

Moody,

Whiteside,

Foster,

Murphree,

Williams, of Barbour,

Freeman,

NeSmith,

Williams, of Marengo,

Gilmore,

Norman,

Wilson, of Clarke,

Glover,

Norwood,

Wilson, of Washington,

Graham, of Montgomery,

O'Neal, of Lauderdale,

Winn.

Total— 102.


4195

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

NOES.

Byars,

Oates,

Cofer,

Sanford,

Total—4.

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING.

Bartlett,

Jackson,

Porter,

Beavers,

Jenkins,

Reese,

Bulger,

Jones, of Hale,

Renfro,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Reynolds, of Chilton,

Carnathon,

King,

Reynolds (Henry),

Case,

Kirkland,

Robinson,

Cunningham,

Kyle,

Roger, of Surnter,

deGraffenreid,

Leigh,

Sentell,

Duke,

Long, of Butler,

Sloan,

Ferguson,

Lowe, of Lawrence,

Sorrell,

Fletcher,

McMillan (Baldwin),

Studdard,

Foshee,

McMillan, of Wilcox,

Tayloe,

Haley,

Morrissette,

Weatherly,

Heflin, of Chambers,

Mulkey,

Willet,

Hinson,

O'Neill (Jefferson),

Williams, of Elmore.

Hodges,

Pearce,

Howell,

Phillips,

And the Article was adopted.

Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Sollie indefinitely on account of sickness in his family; to Mr. Williams (Marengo) for Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

MR. FOSTER (Tuscaloosa)‑I ask unanimous consent to be allowed to make a report from the Committee on Amending the Constitution.

Leave was granted.

 

THE PRESIDENT‑ The report will be taken up after the Article on Exemptions is read and sent to the Committee on Harmony.

The Secretary read the Article on Exceptions as follows :

ARTICLE—

EXEMPTED PROPERTY

Section 1. The personal property of any resident of this State, to the value of one thousand dollars, to be selected by such resident, shall be exempted from sale on execution, or other process of any court, issued for the collection of any debt contracted since the 13th day of July, 1868, or after the ratification of this Constitution.


4196                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

Sec. 2. Every homestead not exceeding eighty acres and the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, to be selected by the owner thereof, and not in any city, town or village, or in lieu thereof, at the option of the owner, any lot in a city, town or village with the dwelling and appurtenances thereon, owned and occupied by any resident of this State, and not exceeding the value of two thousand dollars, shall be exempt from sale on execution, or any other process from a court. for any debt contracted since the 13th day of July, 1868, or after the ratification of this Constitution. Such exemption, however, shall not extend to any mortgage lawfully obtained. But  such mortgage or other alienation of said homestead by the owner thereof. if a married than, shall not be valid without the voluntary signature and assent of the wife to the same.

Sec. 3. The homestead of a family, after the death of the owner thereof, shall be exempt froth the payment of any debt contracted since the 13th day of July, 1868, or after the ratification of this Constitution, in all cases, during the minority of the children.

Sec. 4. The provisions of Section 1 and 2 of this Article shall not be so construed as to prevent a laborer's lien for work done and performed for the person claiming such exemption, or a mechanic's lien for work done on the premises.

Sec. 5. If the owner of a homestead die, leaving a widow, but no children, such homestead shall be exempt, and the rent; and profits thereof shall inure to her benefit.

Sec. 6. The real or personal property of any female in this State, acquired before marriage, and all property, real or personal, to which she may afterwards be entitled by gift, grant, inheritance or devise, shall be and retrain the separate estate and property of such female, and shall not be liable for any debts, obligations and engagements of her husband, and may be devised or bequeathed by her, the same as if she was a feme sole.

Sec. 7. The right of exemption hereinbefore secured, may be waived by an instrument in writing, and when such waiver relates to realty, the instrument must be signed by both the husband and the wife, and attested by one witness.

THE PRESIDENT‑ 'The question will be upon the final passage of the Article. Those who favor the passage of the Article  will say aye and those opposed no, as your names are called.

The roll call resulted as follows:

AYES.

Messrs. President.

Banks,

Blackwell,

Almon,

Barefield,

Brooks,

Altman,

Beddow,

Browne,

Ashcraft,

Bethune.

Bulger,


4197

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION 1901

Burnett,

Hood,

Pitts,

Burns,

Howze,

Porter,

Cardon,

Inge,

Proctor.

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Jenkins,

Reese,

Chapman,

Jones, of Bibb,

Rogers (Lowndes),

Cobb,

Kirk,

Samford,

Cofer,

Knight,

Sanders.

Coleman, of Greene,

Ledbetter,

Sanford,

Coleman, of Walker,

Locklin,

Searcy,

Cornwall,

Lomax,

Selheimer,

Craig,

Lowe, of Jefferson,

Smith (Mobile),

Davis, of DeKalb,

Macdonald,

Smith, Mac. A.,

Davis, of Etowah,

Malone,

Smith, Morgan M .,

Dent,

Martin,

Sollie,

Fley,

'Maxwell,

Spears,

Fyster,

Merrill,

Shrag ins,

Espy,

Miller (Marengo),

Stewart ,

Fitts,

Miller (Wilcox),

Thompson,

Foster,

Moody,

Vaughan,

Freeman,

Murphree,

Waddell,

Gilmore,

NeSmith,

Walker,

Glover,

Norman,

Watts,

Graham, of Montgomery,

Norwood,

Weakley.

Graham, of Talladega,

Oates,

White,

Grant,

O'Neal (Lauderdale),

Whiteside,

Grayson,

Opp,

Williams (Barbour),

Greer, of Calhoun,

O'Rear,

Williams (Marengo),

Greer, of Perry,

Palmer,

Wilson (Clarke),

Handley,

Parker (Cullman),

Wilson (Wash'gton),

Harrison,

Parker (F,Imore),

Winn.

Heflin, of Randolph,

Pettus,

Henderson,

Pillans,

Total‑106.

NOES.

Byars,

Total‑1.

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING.

Bartlett,

Ferguson,

Jones, of Hale,

Beavers,

Fletcher,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Bootle,

Foshee,

Jones, of Wilcox,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Haley,

King,

Carnathon,

Heflin, of Chambers,

Kirkland,

Case,

Hinson,

Kyle,

Cunningham,

Hodges,

Leigh,

deGraffenreid,

Howell,

Long, of Butler,

Duke,

Jackson,

Long, of Walker,


4198                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

Lowe, of Lawrence,

Phillips,

Sloan,

McMillan, of Baldwin,

Renfro,

Sorrell,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Reynolds (Chilton),

Stoddard,

Morrisette,

Reynolds, of Henry,

Tayloe,

Mulkey,

Robinson,

Weatherly,

O'Neill, of Jefferson,

Rogers (Sumter),

Willet,

Pearce,

Sentell,

Williams (Elmore).

And the Article was adopted.

The clerk read the report from the Committee on Amending the Constitution as follows

Ordinance No. 499, with substitute by Mr. Browne :

Report of the Committee on Amending the Constitution and Miscellaneous Provisions.

Mr. President: Your Committee on Amending the Constitution and Miscellaneous Provisions, to which was referred Ordinance No. 449, by Mr. Browne of  Talladega, has instructed me to report favorably the said ordinance with the following substitute for the same, which the, recommend be adopted, the said substitute having been agreed upon in writing by those opposing and those favoring said ordinance No. 449.    Respectively submitted,

J. M. Foster, Chairman.

AN ORDINANCE

To Repeal so 'Much of Ordinance No. 390, as Amended and Adopted by This Convention, Which Applies to Beats 8, 9 and 13, of

Shelby County.

Be it ordained by the people of Alabama, in convention assembled, that the substitute for Ordinance No. 390, to provide for the establishment of a court house and jail in St. Clair County, as amended by providing for the establishment of a court house and jail in Shelby County, which has been adopted by this Convention, be, and the Shelby is hereby, repealed, so far as the saint applies to Beats 8, 9 and 13 of Shelby County.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The article will he ordered printed and referred to the Committee on Order, Consistency and Harmony of the Whole Constitution.

The Secretary will read the article on amending the Constitution.

The Secretary read the article as follows :

An ordinance to amend Article XVI of the Constitution.


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled, that Article XVI of the Constitution he stricken out, and the following article inserted in lieu thereof.

ARTICLE XVI.

MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS.

1. No person holding an office of profit under the United States, except postmasters, whose annual salaries do not exceed two hundred dollars, shall during his continuance in such office hold any office of profit under this State; nor shall any person hold two offices of profit at one and the same time under this State except justices of the Peace, Constables, Notaries Public and Commissioners of Deeds.

2. The salary, fees or compensation of any officer holding any civil office of profit under this State or any county or municipality thereof, shall not be increased or diminished during the term for which he shall have been elected or appointed.

3. It is made the duty of the General Assembly to enact all laws necessary to give effect to the provisions of this Constitution.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The question is on the final passage of the article.

Upon the call of the roll the vote resulted as follows :

AYES.

Almon,

Davis, of Etowah.

Locklin,

Altman,

Dent,

Lomax,

Ashcraft,

Espy.

Long (Walker),

Banks,

Foster,

Lowe (Jefferson),

Barefield,

Graham, of Talladega,

Lowe (Lawrence),

Beavers,

Grant.

MacDonald,

Beddow,

Grayson,

Martin,

Bethune,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Maxwell,

Blackwell,

Greer, of Perry,

Merrill,

Boone,

Haley,

Miller (Marengo),

Brooks,

Handley,

Murphree,

Bulger,

Harrison,

Norwood,

Burnett,

Heflin, of Randolph.

Oates,

Burns,

Henderson,

O'Neal (Lauderdale),

Cardon,

Hood.

O' Rear,

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Howze.

Palmer,

Chapman,

Inge,

Parker (Cullman),

Cobb,

Jackson,

Parker (Elmore),

Coleman, of Greene,

Jones, of Bibb,

Pettus,

Coleman, of Walker,

!ones, of Wilcox,

Pillans,

Cunningham,

Kirk,

Porter,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Knight,

Proctor,


4200                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

Reese,

Spragins,

White,

Rogers (Lowndes),

Stewart,

Whiteside,

Samford,

Thompson,

Williams (Barbour),

Sanders,

Vaughan,

Williams (Marengo),

Searcy,

Waddell,

Wilson (Clarke),

Selheimer,

Walker,

Wilson (Washington),

Smith, Mac. A.,

Watts,

Winn,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Weakley,

Total— 89.

NOES.

Bartlett,

Foshee,

Byars,

Phillips,

Total‑4.

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING.

Messrs. President,

Hodges,

Opp,

Browne,

Howell,

Pearce,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

Jenkins,

Pitts,

Carnathon,

Jones, of Hale,

Renfro,

Case,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Reynolds (Chilton),

Cofer,

King,

Reynolds (Henry),

Cornwall,

Kirkland,

Robinson,

Craig,

Kyle,

Rogers (Sumter),

deGraffenreid,

Ledbetter,

Sanford,

Duke,

Leigh,

Sentell,

Eley,

Long (Butler),

Sloan,

Eyster,

McMillan (Baldwin),

Smith (Mobile),

Ferguson,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Sollie,

Fitts,

Malone,

Sorrell,

Fletcher,

Miller (Wilcox),

Spears,

Freeman,

Moody,

Studdard,

Gilmore,

Morrisette,

Tayloe,

Glover,

Mulkey,

Weatherly,

Graham, of Montgomery,

NeSmith,

Willet,

Heflin, of Chambers,

Norman,

Williams (Elmore).

Hinson,

O'Neill (Jefferson),

So the article was adopted.

MR. LEDBETTER‑I ask unanimous consent to introduce an ordinance which has nothing to do with the Solicitors or Sheriffs, and which I would ask to have referred to the Committee on Judiciary.

Leave was granted.

The Secretary read the ordinance as follows:

Ordinance No. 451 by Mr. Ledbetter :


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

To provide for the establishment of a court house and jail at some point, to be determined by an election by the people, in that portion of Talladega county within the limits of precincts numbered 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 of said county.

Be it ordained by the people of Alabama in Convention assembled :

First‑ That it shall be the duty of the Probate Judge of Talladega county to order an election to be held in precincts number 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 in said county, not later than sixty days after the ratification of the Constitution to be submitted by this Convention, for a vote of the qualified electors in said precincts, for the selection of a place at which a court house and jail shall be erected and maintained. Officers for such election shall be appointed, and the election in all things conducted in accordance with the laws governing general elections. Upon the ballot to be used in such election, the names of all places to be voted on shall be printed, and the choice of the elector shall be indicated by a cross mark before the place of his choice. The votes cast at such election shall be canvassed, tabulated, returns thereof made and counted in the same manner as is done in elections for Sheriffs and other county officers. At the place receiving the highest number of votes at such there shall be erected and maintained a court house and jail for the trial of all cases and the transaction of all legal business originating in said precincts 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13.

The venue of all sections and suits (other than such as are to be tried before Justices of the Peace), in which only residents of that portion of said precincts 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 of said county are defendants, shall, except as otherwise provided by law, lie at the court house herein provided for.

Second‑ The Court of County Commissioners of Talladega county shall at its first regular meeting after the election provided for in Section 1 of this ordinance, take all the necessary steps and make all necessary orders to issue and sell bonds of Talladega county to the amount of ten thousand ($10,000) dollars, the proceeds to be used for the erection and equipment of such court house and jail, or to provide by other means a sufficient amount of money to erect a suitable court house and jail at the place which shall have been selected in accordance with said Section 1, and temporarily equip and furnish the same with record books and other necessary equipments, provided, however, that if said Court of County Commissioners shall levy a tax for such purpose, such tax shall be levied on all taxable property in said county, but all of such tax shall not be levied and collected in one year. And provided further, that such court house and jail shall be completed in every way and shall be ready for the holding of court and the transaction of legal business on or before the first day of September, 1903.


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OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

Third‑ The Sheriff, Probate Judge, Circuit Clerk. Register in Chancery, Tax Assessor, Tax Collector and Superintendent of Education of Talladega county shall keep offices in the court house, which shall be built in accordance with the' provisions of this ordinance.

Fourth‑‑ The General Assembly at its first meeting after the ratification of the Constitution, to be submitted to the people by this Convention, shall enact laws regulating tile holding of courts at the court house provided for 1n this ordinance.

Fifth‑' This ordinance shall be valid and effective if the Constitution which shall be framed by this Convention be ratified by the people, otherwise it shall be void.

THE. PRESIDENT- The regular order this afternoon will be the consideration of the report of the Committee on Education.  The Convention had under consideration Section 5, to which there was pending an amendment offered by the gentleman from Barbour, and an amendment to the amendment offered by, the gentleman from Lauderdale.

Leaves of absence were granted as follows. To Mr. Reynolds of Henry, for tomorrow on account of sickness in his family; to Mr. Kyle for today.

MR. O'NEAL (Lauderdale)‑I think it is unjust to those of us who oppose this Section to assume that we are unfriendly to the cause of public education. I am sure that not a gentleman who has spoken in opposition to this Section is less zealous in favor of increased facilities for public schools than the members of the Committee themselves. Our opposition is on entirely different grounds. No gentleman yet has answered the argument made by the delegate from Madison. We cannot afford to put in the Constitution a rate which is fixed and permanent and which might in the future prevent the State from reducing its taxation, or affect or impair its credit. If the prosperity of the State in the future should be as great as that pictured by the gentleman from Roanoke, if our growth, development and prosperity should grow to such an extent as he has described, then we could afford to reduce the present rate of taxation. How can we reduce the rate of taxation if you say by your Constitution that 30 cents on the $100 shall always be appropriated for the public schools? As the gentleman from Madison wisely said, suppose an individual has an income of $5,000 a year, and he fixes it by deed that $2,500 of that income should be appropriated to the education of his children, and by adversity his income should be reduced to $1,000, is he to take it all and educate his children and let them starve? Suppose misfortune should occur in the State of Alabama, and we can only judge the future by the past, and we know that in the course of time, every ten or fifteen years, great commercial panics occur,


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CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

values of property decrease, the tax rate does not bring the revenue we expect, what would be the condition of Alabama. Suppose the authorities of this State should be confronted with this proposition:  You must impair the amount appropriated for the public schools or default in the interest on the public debt, which alternative are we to take? I am sure that there is not a delegate in this Convention who would not reduce the appropriation for public schools rather than jeopardize the honor and credit of the State.

MR. GREER (Calhoun)‑I want to ask if you had better let your children go a little bit raged and sometimes a little hungry and educate them than to dress them fine and feed them well and raise them up in ignorance.

MR. O'NEAL‑I would rather do both. I would rather educate them and feed them too. When it comes to the question of whether I would rather let them die from hunger or educate them. I would rather feed them.

Now this is a serious practical objection to this Section. Take the State of Pennsylvania, as I heard a gentleman say: The State of Pennsylvania levies no tax on real estate. The State of Texas only has a tax rate of 30 cents, and if the State of Alabama should grow in prosperity, if oil should be found in the northern section of the State, if wealth and population should pour into our borders as described by the gentleman from Randolph, we might wish to reduce the rate of taxation to 50 cents, on the $100, but here is this iron manacle in the Constitution to forbid. I ain willing to offer this kind of an amendment which I think covers my objection to the Section, (I will withdraw the other amendment at the proper time):

Strike out the following words in line 3 of Section 5: "Together with the special annual tax of 30 cents on each $100 of taxable property in this State," and insert in lieu thereof the following : "Together with an annual appropriation of not less than the amount now paid by the State therefor," and add at the end of the Section the following: "And provided, further, that nothing herein contained shall be so construed as to prevent the Legislature from first providing for the payment of the State's bonded indebtedness and the interest thereon out of all the revenues of the State."

That would meet both objections, or if you had put in your Section here that the amount appropriated for schools should not be less than one-half of the State's taxation, that might not furnish an unbending rule, but if you say that it should never be less than 30 cents on the $100, if the time should ever arrive in this State when, by reason of our increased population and wealth, we desire to reduce our rate of taxation in Alabama, we would be confronted by the fact that we would have to appropriate 30 cents on the $100


4204                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

for the public schools, when probably 10 cents would be amply sufficient, or 20 cents, if the State grows in wealth and power, might not 30 cents on the $100 raise more than could be wisely appropriated for educational purposes? Why not? Who can answer the question? Suppose it  should raise more. It might be that one mill or two mills would be all that was necessary for the general purposes of the State outside of education, and if 30 cents raised more than was necessary for the public school, you could not reduce it. The gentleman says that might not occur and will not occur. How do you know? We are making a Constitution for twenty-five or fifty years to come, and we do no want to go to the people of Alabama and say that we have fixed it in the fundamental law of Alabama so that it makes no difference how great your revenues may be, whether they are more than necessary for the public schools or not, you never can reduce the tax rate in Alabama below 65 cents on the $100. In the past you have lead it at 50 cents, and the State has grown and prospered, but in the future you can never reduce it below 65 cents because two and a half mills will probably always be necessary for the general expenses of the State.

Now the gentlemen say it is popular to adopt this section.  That is not the question. It is not a question of popularity. It is a question of principle. We ought not to do anything here that will affect or impair the credit of the State or prevent her bonded debt from being floated at a low rate of interest. We should not sacrifice principle to expediency. They say that this section would not have that effect. Wouldn't it have that effect when you go to the monied world and say to them: By our Constitution we can only appropriate two and a half mills for our public debt. Heretofore you could appropriate seventy-five cents on the hundred  dollars; yea, take every dollar of State taxes less the necessary expenses of government if necessary to preserve the honor and credit of Alabama, and yet by this Constitution you say to the bond buyer that under our Constitution Alabama can only take two and a half mills to pay our bonded debt, public interest and expenses of government. That is all that is left, two and a half mills.

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑I just want to suggest that the running expenses are always preferred claims.

MR. O'NEAL‑ Certainly. That means simply default. That simply means we default in the public debt. What would be the condition of Alabama if we default in the public debt? Does anybody want to repudiate our public debt? Take Mississippi a few years ago, it repudiated its public debt, and it cost Mississippi millions of dollars. It prevented the influx of wealth and population into her borders, and cost her whenever she undertook to raise a loan in the financial world a rate of interest that was almost


4205

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

oppressive. We should protect the credit and honor of the State above everything else. Therefore I offered the amendment which I suggest, that nothing in this section should prevent the legislature from appropriating all the revenues of the State to the payment of the bonded debt of the State and the interest on our bonded debt, and also the proposition that we make the amount appropriated to the schools not less than the amount now appropriated so that we can go to the people and say that by our Constitution the amount the schools are to receive in future can never be less than you now receive.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman's time has expired.

MR. O'NEAL‑I ask leave before I conclude my remarks to withdraw the amendment which I offered and offer the one which I have just read as a substitute.

MR. LOWE (Jefferson)‑I move that the time of the gentleman from Lauderdale be extended ten minutes.

MR. GRANT‑I believe I have permission to ask a question.

THE PRESIDENT‑ Yes, sir.

MR. GRANT‑ Can you tell me how much two and a half mills will raise under the present rate of taxation.

MR. O'NEAL‑I know nothing and care nothing about the figures.

MR. GRANT‑I am informed that it will raise seven hundred

and fifty thousand dollars.

MR. O'NEAL‑ The time may come when it will raise much more than we need for public schools.

MR. BULGER‑ Does the amendment cover amount now received by the public schools?

MR. O'NEAL— My amendment says the appropriation shall not be less than the appropriation now made.

MR. BULGER‑ Eight hundred and seven thousand dollars.

MR. O'NEAL‑ Yes, sir.

The amendment offered by Mr. O'Neal was read as follows:

"Strike out the following words in line three of Section 5: Together with the special annual tax of thirty cents on each one hundred dollars of taxable property in this State," and insert in lieu thereof the following: "Together with an annual appropriation of not less than the amount now paid by the State therefor" and add at the end of the section the following: "And provided, further, that nothing herein contained shall be so construed as to.


4206                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

prevent the legislature from first providing for the payment of the State's bonded indebtedness and the interest thereon out of all the revenues of the State.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑I am authorized by the Committee to say, in regard to the amendment just proposed, at the end of the section, that we unanimously desire to accept the amendment so far as it relates to that part which is proposed to be added to the end of the section. The Committee does not accept the other part. They are separate and distinct. We are in favor of protecting the public debt and the interest on it above every thin, and hence we endorse the latter part of the amendment, but the other part we do not.

THE, PRESIDENT‑ Does the gentleman wish it submitted at this time ?

MR. GRAHAM‑I would be glad to have that part of it submitted at this time for unanimous consent, but the other part of it relating to line three we do not accept.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The Secretary calls attention to the fact that it seems to be all in one amendment.

MR. GRAHAM‑I then make no further request. I simply wanted to get the amendment before the Convention.

MR. BROWNE (Talladega)‑I will state that when the amendment is before the Convention. a division of the question might be called for, and in that way we could have a vote upon the proviso and then vote upon the other proposition.

I heartily favor the proviso offered in that amendment, and personally. I favor the balance of the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lauderdale, but I do not desire to discuss that question. I desire simply to state that the Committee on Taxation in its investigation of the subject of lowering the rate of taxation in Alabama for State purposes, took into consideration this question of the appropriation for schools, and in every calculation that the Committee made, they provided for eight hundred thousand dollars, at least, for the public schools. They provided for the present one mill of special taxation for the public schools, and for an annual appropriation out of the general fund of five hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and, as Chairman of the Committee, I desire to say that, in my opinion, the State can safely provide, and put it in the Constitution, that not less than eight hundred thousand dollars shall be appropriated for the public schools annually, after lowering the tax rate from seventy-five cents to sixty-five cents on the one hundred dollars. That will leave, without any increase in taxable values, and without any increase of revenues from licenses, a surplus of at least one hundred thousand dollars a year. But we know, Mr. President, that taxable values have increased this over


4207

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

last year over twelve million dollars; the increase will probably reach fourteen million dollars, but will certainly be over twelve million dollars, and we should not lose sight of the fact that in 1907, if there is not another dollar invested in cotton manufacturing, we will then be taxing at least forty million dollars of cotton factories. If we continue the present yearly increase in capital invested in the cotton manufacturing business, which is nine million dollars a year, we will have at least an increase of seventy-five millions of taxable property from that industry alone in 1907. But, to be conservative, say that no more money shall be invested in that business, in 1907 we will then be taxing at least forty million dollars of capital invested in the manufacturing of cotton alone not now taxable, and it our rate of increase remains the same rate that it has for the last five years, we will have fifty or sixty million dollars more. In other words, unless you calculate upon a panic, we will in 1907 have, at the lowest figure, at least one hundred million dollars more taxable property in Alabama than we have at the present time. That would yield a revenue of about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. If the bonded indebtedness of Alabama be refunded in three and a half per cent interest bonds, we will save yearly one hundred and twenty thousand dollars.  There is no question about refunding the State's bonded indebtedness, if it is done now, at as low a rate as three and a half per cent, and I have no sort of doubt but that it can be refunded now at three and a quarter per cent, and probably less. So there can be no question as to the ability of the State of Alabama to appropriate eight hundred thousand dollars to the public schools.

Now gentlemen say this does not provide for some emergency that may happen. Well, it is owing altogether to the extent and to the character of that emergency. There will be a surplus in the State Treasury, an actual as well as a bookkeeping surplus, of at least three hundred thousand dollars on the first day of October, 1902. It will probably be more than three hundred thousand dollars, but certainly not less than three hundred thousand dollars. In addition to that surplus, against which there will be nothing chargeable, there will be six hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars of actual cash balance in the Treasury, against which there will be chargeable an amount about equal to that, but it will not be payable out of that cash balance, for the reason that the receipts from licenses and taxes paid in November, December and January following will be sufficient to pay those liabilities so chargeable against that actual cash balance, without touching any part of it. Then, if, in 1903, you have a panic, you would be ready to meet it with one million dollars. You would have your three hundred thousand dollars of actual surplus, and you would have, in round figures, six hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars of cash surplus that you could get along without, which would be


4208                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

more than sufficient to meet the liabilities chargeable against that cash balance without recourse to the taxes of the next fiscal year.

Now, if such a catastrophe should happen that you could not collect your, taxes, you would have this six hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars of cash balance and three hundred thousand dollars of surplus, and you would not need the taxes until that amount was exhausted.

MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)‑What about the amendment?

MR. BROWNE‑I don't care to discuss the amendment, but  I will say that I personally favor the amendment. When the report of the Committee on Taxation was up, a howl came from some of the press of Alabama that we intended to cut down the school appropriation and for the purpose of showing the good faith of the Committee on Taxation, I introduced an amendment to the Constitution, and sent it to the Committee on Education, providing that we should never appropriate less than one mill and five hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which is, in substance, this amendment of the gentleman from Lauderdale. It protects the credit of the State, and it provides that the Legislature shall never appropriate less than now for schools. If, on the other hand, the Convention should see fit to adopt the section as reported by the Committee on Education, I can see no harm in that. If values increase rapidly, the school fund will increase rapidly. If values should depreciate rapidly, the school fund will depreciate rapidly.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega) ‑‑Does not the gentleman think that with the increase in tax values in this State there will be necessarily an increase in population, and, therefore, we would need a larger school fund?

MR. BROWNE‑I do think so, and I have no objection to  the section reported by the Committee, but it seems to me unnecessary to make it mandatory on the Legislature what amount shall be appropriated, nor to make the increase mandatory. I see no necessity for that. Certainly, we can trust the Legislature to increase the eight hundred thousand dollars in the future as necessity requires, and as the finances of the State will admit. But, on the other hand, if a catastrophe should come, and if values decrease rapidly, why, under the plan proposed by the Committee on Education, the educational appropriation would decrease rapidly; whereas, if that catastrophe came, and we adopted this amendment, we would have to pay the eight hundred thousand dollars no matter what was the extent of the misfortune.

MR. MALONE‑I wish to support the report of the committee, especially when we consider the amendment that they have stated they would accept. With that provision, as I understand it, it ought to have the unqualified approval of this entire Conven‑


4209

CONSTITUTIONAL, CONVENTION, 1901

tion. No man wants to interfere with the payment of the interest on the public debt. We all recognize that the debt itself cannot be paid and therefore it must be carried.

What the common schools of the country need is something certain and sure. I think that a certain and sufficient amount to bear the general expenses of the State ought to be assessed. We are assured by the very best authority that thirty-five cents on the hundred dollars is sufficient when we exclude the schools. The schools ought not to be made to bear the brunt of all short comings that may occur in times of depression.

The plan adopted by the committee regulates that in a sliding scale, and if values are decreased we collect less, and as time goes on and values increase, we will collect more. We all expect the State to improve, we all expect values to increase, and we all know that our school system must increase. This provides for it. We have to remember that in a great deal of our country there is not as much interest in that question as you think there is. We have come here to regulate taxation and make propositions applying to cities, villages and towns, but when you look at it, what have we done to interest the man who cares nothing for the election question, nor for the local city government. I am not one to go on and talk about the dear people and say this, that and the other, because I believe in doing right irrespective of what others care or think. He wants to know what benefit it is to him. We have pledged the people that we would give them better schools, if possible. I dare say there is not a delegate on this floor who spoke upon this question of a new Constitution who did not dwell upon the necessity for an improvement in the schools. Furthermore we have made it a condition of suffrage in the future that the people must have an educational qualification. We all agree that that is the meaning of the provision, and I for one have pledged my people that when we required that, we would also say in the Constitution that we would give them better schools. One of the first conditions for better schools is something that is certain. something that is sure. Give them a good foundation that can be relied on. If thirty-five cents is not enough, make it forty-five cents, or thirty cents if that is enough, but do not make the schools dependent on everything else. We all agree that the interest can the bonded debt of the State shall be taken care of. Then let the balance of the rise in values go—

MR. O’NEAL (Lauderdale)‑Suppose the time should arrive in the future when thirty cents on a hundred dollars would yield more revenue than was necessary to support the public schools, then we would be in a position where we could not reduce taxes.

MR. MALONE‑ Why, sir, I expect the time to come when we will pay fifty cents altogether.


4210                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

MR. O'NEAL‑ For the public schools?

MR. MALONE‑ Yes, sir, I certainly do.

MR. O'NEAL‑ You expect that to be the case in Alabama?

MR. MALONE— I certainly  think so. I, for one, never expect to be satisfied with a dollar and forty cents a year for schooling of a child in this State, and I certainly hope that the time will come—

MR. O'NEAL‑ My question is if thirty cents yields more than is necessary, more than the Legislature or the people deem necessary, for the support of the public schools, wouldn't you have it in the Constitution, and it could not be reduced?

MR. MALONE‑ Yes, sir. Thirty cents will give an increased  amount, as the conditions improve. I believe in progression. I am not satisfied with the schools now. I accept them because we cannot do any better, but when we can do better, I want to do it. If I didn't think this thirty cents would provide for it, I would demand something that would provide for it. As I see it, it is the only thing we can do, and I wish unqualifiedly to endorse that proposition, especially as I am assured by the Committee on Taxation that thirty-five cents is certainly sufficient to take care of everything else, and I am opposed to the schools having to bear the brunt of these other things.

MR. OATES‑I have listened to this discussion with a good deal of interest. These are questions to which I have given some thought heretofore. This Convention seems to have the idea in reference to the ability of the States in future, that we will continue to grow and tax values increase all the time with no set‑back at all. They remind me of our Southern people who engage in speculating in cotton futures. They nearly always lose, because in that game they are betting upon higher price, as this is a cotton producing section. They are looking altogether for good times, and never making an allowance for a panic. Financial panics have come in the past. They come along periodically, sometimes in ten years, sometimes in fifteen years or twenty years, but they are sure to come. They always do. Now, sir, it seems to me that the error of this proposition is this: They want to provide certainly for so much money in any event to be appropriated for the public schools and let other interests of the State take care of themselves and take their chances on panics or anything else that may come along. I believe they have in it now a provision to provide for the payment of the interest on the public debt. That is well, but you are going to fix a certain amount, in any event,  for the schools, and a certain amount to pay the interest on the public debt, although your old Confederate soldiers and the widows of those who fought gallantly, are indigent, and most of them got


4211

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

in such a state of poverty in consequence of disabilities incurred in that service, and they may look and look in vain to the Treasury of the State for aid. It is a wrong hypothesis we are adopting.  We should provide for all the necessary expenditures of the Government, the proper current expenses, reasonable Confederate pensions and should provide likewise for our other institutions. There is the insane asylum, all institution of the very greatest humanity and splendidly conducted. Is that to fall short in case of a panic, because of no funds to provide for those helpless inmates? Then if any gentleman wants to see and have impressed upon him the importance of schools of a charitable nature, let him visit Talladega and see the schools there for the blind, deaf and mute, and would he not put them on a permanent basis in preference to the common schools? Let us provide that these expenses of the State shall be met, as does the present Constitution. I have been looking at that, and think it wise. It provided for an appropriation of so much out of the Treasury, and for an increase for school purposes to the utmost extent that the financial condition of the Treasury and the people of the State would warrant. Have we got to fix it in the Constitution that there must be so much, in order that you may say to the people, "see what we have done for our schools; that much has got to come  whether anything else he provided for or not." That is not wise statesmanship. Provide for the schools always as well as we can, because the old policy of letting every roan educate his children has ceased to exist. Now the intent and purpose is to make the property of the State educate the children of the State. That is the policy, but let us provide for the necessary expenditures to run our State Government, and to meet and provided for those charities that are overwhelming in their claims.  In any event, let them all be provided for, and then let your Legislature, consisting of patriots and men who desire to see our educational institutions flourish, provide for our schools, and I point to the record of the Legislature on that subject for a vindication of its action and point the people to it, to which they can justly look with the expectation of having every dollar, that can be spared from other necessary and indispensible appropriations to run the schools, and I would prefer to any amendment that has been offered, the provision in the present Constitution that fixes the minimum. If you want to, fix a minimum a little higher than that, but it don't seem from legislative action in the past to be necessary, as they always appropriate all the money that can be spared over and above the necessary expenses, to these public schools. That is safe. That is wise. That is a proper basis upon which this Convention ought to act, in my judgment.

MR. BULGER ‑Mr. President, I have been very much interested in many of the articles that have been adopted by this Convention, but I am free to confess that I am more interested in this one than in any of them. I like the latter part of the amendment


4212                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

offered by the gentleman from Lauderdale, because it protects the honor of the State. We are all agreed on one proposition, and that is that the prosperity and welfare of our governmental institutions depends upon the intelligence and integrity of our people. It is the experience of all the States of the Union that the appropriation from the Treasury for the support of the public schools is money well spent. We are all agreed on that proposition. Then the question with which we are confronted is ways and means. How shall it be done?

If this appropriation remains in the Constitution, it will be a realization and a guarantee to the people of Alabama, in my humble judgment, of their fondest hopes. If it is stricken out it will carry disappointment and depression to the people of the State.  This Committee is composed of nineteen conservative and intelligent gentlemen. They come from every section of this State. They have spent sixty days in thorough investigation of this question, and they stand united. They stand unanimous for this part of this report that leaves the three mills in the Constitution for the support of the schools. It is urged that it is not a proper subject to be in the Constitution that it properly belongs to the Legislature. I am surprised at some of the gentleman who argued that way, and yet am gratified, even at this late hour, that they have some confidence left in the Legislature. I have faith in this Convention, the representatives of the people, and so far as I have seen, I desire to say that this Convention is superior to the Legislature in only one particular, and that is numbers.

Now should it be left in the Constitution is the question? We only disagree as to whether it should be put in the fundamental law of the State, or whether it should be left to the wisdom of the Legislature. We have precedent, gentlemen, to leave it in the Constitution. The fathers that make the Constitution of 1875 put it in the Constitution. It is now in the old Constitution, that we are revising and amending, and I fail to hear any gentleman give any reason that is plausible why we should strike it out in this day of progress and educational interest in Alabama. Now is it too much? The appropriation now, under the law of this State, is $1,100,000 to the public school fund. We have $550,000 appropriation out of the general fund. We have $250,000 which is appropriated under the one mill tax. We have $150,000 of poll tax, and then we have the Sixteenth Section fund of about $160,000, which makes $1,100,000. The people of Alabama are interested, it is true, in the suffrage question, but if you will go among the people in the country, you will find that they are no less interested in the welfare of the schools in which they must of necessity educate their children. Now is it safe to leave this appropriation in the Constitution? Is there a possibility of the panic that my friend from Montgomery (Mr. Oates) suggests. The taxable values of this State from 1875, when the old Constitution was


4213

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

made, until 1901, when the new Constitution is made, has more than doubled, and in the past four years, since 1896, $24,000,000 have been added to the tax value of our State. I submit, my friends, that it is unnecessary alarm that these gentlemen sound to this Convention. I believe that the taxable values in the next twenty-five years will increase much more rapidly than they have in the past twenty-five years. I have faith in the judgment and the foresight of my distinguished friend from Randolph, (Mr. Handley), and he says it is so.

Now this is like appropriating the surplus in the Treasury to the support of the common schools in the State. The history of the finances of Alabama for twenty-five years has shown, that with the present rate of taxation, we are doing nothing more nor less than appropriating the surplus in the treasury to the support of the public schools in the State. Last year on the 30th of September we had about a half million dollar surplus in the treasury.  That does not look like a scarcity of money, notwithstanding the extravagance of the legislature who years ago, that made more appropriations out of the treasury than any legislature since the war, except the one of last year. Those appropriations were met and paid off promptly, and still when they wound up on the 30th of September, 1900, they had a half a million dollar surplus in the treasury. I, for one, am opposed to its lying there. I am in favor as early as possible, of paying it out, to what I conceive to be the most laudable purpose that can be imagined, to the support of the public schools in the State. The Asylum at Tuscaloosa is in no danger. They get all the money they need and still we have a surplus in the treasury. The University is in no danger. We paid the normal schools throughout the State seven thousand five hundred dollars apiece last year, and still there is a surplus in the treasury.

Now the people in Alabama are expecting that the public school interests in this State will be protected, and that they have a guarantee from this Convention that they will be protected.  When you do that, my friends, and connect it with the grandfather clause in the Suffrage Article in my humble judgment no proposition has been so popular before the people of Alabama.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The time of the gentleman has expired.

MR. SANDERS‑I rise to a question of personal privilege. On the vote whereby the article on the "Amending the Constitution," Article No. XVII, was adopted, I inadvertently voted aye, when it was my intention to vote no. I desire leave to be recorded as voting no. I do this because I was opposed to the Constitution providing that the basis of representation shall not be changed by amendment. I voted that way when the Article was under consideration, and I desire to be consistent, and ask leave to be recorded as voting no.


4214                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑I dislike very much to object to anything of that sort, but this will have the effect of putting the gentleman upon record, and if we start anything of this sort there will be no end to it, and I therefore object to it.

MR. REESE‑I move that the rules be suspended and that the gentleman be allowed to record his vote in the way he desires.

THE PRESIDENT ‑It seems to the Chair it could only be done by unanimous consent.

MR. WHITE‑I voted the same way and under the same misapprehension, and of course without consent I could not change my vote from aye to no, but I would like for the Convention to consent for me to make that change. If it does not, I desire to make this statement in explanation of my position.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The stenographer will take note of the statements of the gentlemen.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)–Gentleman of the Convention, this question—  I yield to the gentleman from Lee.

MR. HARRISON‑I desire to make the same statement as made by the gentleman from Jefferson, Mr. White. I intended to vote against the passage of that measure. I voted against its adoption, and not hearing sufficiently when it was passed I voted aye when I desired to vote no.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The stenographer will take note of the statement of the gentleman from Lee.

MR. BOONE— I desire to vote aye on the Article on Exemptions. I wasn't present at the time, and I ask unanimous consent to be allowed to vote aye.

MR. BOONE (Pike)‑I make the same objection.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The Chair could not entertain a request of that kind without unanimous consent. It would create a precedent here and we would never get through with the business before us.

MR. PROCTOR‑I desire for the same reason to be recorded as voting no on the Article on Representation.

THE PRESIDENT‑ There is objection. The gentleman may state how he would have voted.

MR. PROCTOR‑I would have voted no.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The stenographer will take note of it.

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑Mr. President and gentlemen of the Convention, the Committee on Education desires to be fair


4215

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

and conservative in all these matters, and we have heard extensive discussions upon this subject. I want to meet the argument made by the gentleman from Lauderdale in behalf of his amendment which provides that the school fund shall be kept the same as it is now. The first objection to it is that it is indefinite. Who knows what "it is now," except a few officials, and in a few years it will be a meaningless section in the new Constitution. The objection that he makes to thirty cents as a permanent public school fund is that possibly in a few years ten cents will be enough. The gentleman must make that statement in total ignorance of the fact that the public school term in Alabama last year for white schools was sixty-eight days, less than three months and a half, and the school teachers drew the pitiful salary of twenty-five dollars and five cents per month for that length of time. I am surprised that that gentlemen who earn good fees and draw good salaries and have positions the year round can make such statements as this in the case of the fact that school teachers in the State draw less than one hundred dollars per annum for their services, and the children go to school less than seventy days in the year. Talk about the possibility of the time coming when ten cents will do, when thirty cents is doing no more than that now!

MR. SAMFORD (Pike)‑A friendly suggestion: I would just like to hear the advisability of doing it. Our ability to make it thirty cents, if I can be convinced of that I would be glad to vote on it.

MR. GRAHAM‑ This Convention was convinced of that, it seems to me, by an overwhelming majority, when it voted that the tax rate should be limited to sixty-five cents in this State, and at the same time put its pledge upon that that the school fund and the soldiers fund should not be touched, and the distinguished gentleman from Randolph, a member of that Committee, and the Chairman of that Committee, came before you today after careful investigation and they make you that pledge, and if you will not be convinced by that it seems to me the Convention is determined that it will not be convinced. Thirty cents is a sliding scale and if the most extreme dreams that are indulged here in regard to the increase in tax values should come true, I tell you that with it will come an increased population, and increased responsibility to meet their necessities, and I ask in all seriousness are you as, delegates, framing a new Constitution in the twentieth century. willing for it to go down in history that the great State of Alabama will make no further provision for public schools than four months in the year, and hold teachers at a salary of twenty-five dollars per month? (Applause.) It will be writing disgrace and shame forever upon the fair brow of our beloved Alabama to make this declaration to the enlightened people of the United States. How do we stand now? Georgia, of the Southern States leads off with


4216                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

$1,258,000. Virginia with $964,000 from the State and $943,000 from local taxation; South Carolina with $760,000, adding to that $215,000 as local; Tennessee, $1,407,000 from the State, with the local not given: Mississippi with $630,000 from the State and $413,000 local ; Texas with $3,118,000 from the State and $868,000 local. When we come down to the average adult per capita tax and Virginia has $2.45 ; South Carolina, $2.08: Georgia, $2.72 ; Tennessee, $3.16 ; Mississippi, $2.07 ; Texas, $4.40, and Alabama closes the list at the humiliating sum of $1.17 per capita on the adult male population for public schools.

MR. DENT–Is there a constitutional provision in any of these States fixing the amount, the percentage?

MR. GRAHAM–There is no constitutional provision that I know of, but that amount is given.  I ask the gentleman from Barbour if he objects to the State of Alabama in its constitution making a pledge to the people as to what it will do for the people on the public school fund?  That is the question?

MR. DENT--Do you wish me to answer that?

MR. GRAHAM–I do, briefly.

MR. DENT–I think we can leave it to the Legislature and, judging the future by the past, they will amply take care of the  public schools.

MR. GRAHAM–That is the point that I want to come to now.  The State officials of Alabama cannot forecast in their messages and reports to the Legislature what the tax rate should be because they do not know what the Legislature is going to do on the school question.  I want it fixed so that whatever surplus may accumulate in this State will be an index to the Legislature that they may, after providing for additional needs of the schools, reduce the tax because the Constitution has already fixed the annual appropriation that the public schools shall receive.  The public schools should not be a foot-ball for the Legislature or anybody else, and under this plan, they will rise to the dignity, that they don’t have to come to the back-door of the Capitol, as insinuated by the gentleman from Montgomery, to get what they deserve.  They will come, as a matter of right, and not as mendicants to the State, for aid.  They are not mendicants, and I ask that the Convention shall write it in the bond that public schools are not mendicants.  Now, then, do not forget this proposition, that we are not asking you to give us in the Constitution as much as we are now receiving, although our public school term is less than four months and the teachers are working on the pitiful monthly salary of $25.  If the poll tax should fall off $50,000 under the new suffrage law, then the schools are off $86,000 to begin with.  The new Constitution should show progress on education, and not retrogression.  Why, they say adopt the old Constitu-


4217

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

tion which in the minimum sum of one hundred thousand dollars.  We would invite the contempt and the finger of scorn of the enlightened sentiment of the Union by writing that kind of a clause in a Constitution made in the year 1901. Are we asking for immigration in this State, or shall we encourage emigration? If you want to invite immigration, write it in the Constitution that three mills shall be devoted to education, and immigration will come. If you do not want it, write it that you will have one hundred thousand dollars as the minimum and leave the public schools as the football of the Legislature, and no more immigration will come, but I cannot pledge you what will take place on the line of emigration. We have already declared that after 1903 that suffrage in this State shall be based upon intelligence or property, and I pray you answer rne what expectation: can the uneducated people of this State have that they can qualify to come in under the intelligence clause; and if there is a man here who is skeptical upon the question whether intelligence produces wealth, I want to assure him that it not only produces wealth, but that it promotes virtue, and if we are to have suffrage based upon wealth; give us an intelligence which will not only produce wealth, but along with it will promote virtue and good government in Alabama.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I move to extend the time of the gentleman from Talladega ten minutes.

Upon a vote being taken, the time of the gentleman from Talladega was extended ten minutes.

MR. GRAHAM‑I thank you, gentlemen, and will try to get through in less than ten minutes.

In connection with intelligence and wealth, I desire to quote words, than which none more forceful nor more fraught with wisdom have fallen upon the ears of the delegates of this Convention, from the opening address of our distinguished President :

"The productive power of labor in Massachusetts is said to be nearly double that of every inhabitant of the whole United States, and the reason assigned is the superior educational advantages furnished to her people."

Gentlemen, do you know that in many sections of Alabama, that there are proud homesteads that stand dismantled and deserted, almost in the crumbling ruins of desolation itself? And why? Because the people who formerly lived in those homes, on account of the lack of social advantages and social intercourse, and educational advantages for their children, have closed their homes and moved into the towns and cities to educate their children. There are those, less fortunate, unable to get away, that remain behind them. Sitting there in the densest gloom that can


4218                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

come upon a people from whom the light of Hope has almost gone out, they are anxiously looking for the light which it seems will never come, and I plead with you today that by your action in adopting this section for a 3 mill tax, to show to them

"The crimson streak on oceans cheek,

Which tells of the coming dawn."

With them, this light will never pierce the gloom until you provide means for the education of the children in those homes.  The virtue of this great State is gathered around the hearthstones of the people, whether those homes be intelligent or ignorant. I beg you to come up in the manhood that should characterize patriotic citizens, and do your whole duty by the people to whom you have said in the Suffrage Article only those that possess intelligence of property shall vote after January, 1903.

Now, Mr. President, I do not care to argue this matter further. I move to lay the amendments now pending on the table, with the view, if the motion prevails, of offering the latter part of the amendment of the gentleman from Lauderdale, that is, that the credit of this State shall be protected, and that the interest on the bonded debt shall be a preferred claim; and if the motion should prevail, I will offer that amendment by the unanimous request of the Committee on Education. I, therefore, move to table the amendments to Section 5.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The motion is to table the amendment offered by the gentleman from Barbour, and the amendment offered by the gentleman from Lauderdale.

MR. WATTS-‑I call for a division of the question.

Upon a vote being taken upon the amendment offered by the gentleman fro Lauderdale, the same was tabled.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The question recurs upon the amendment offered by the gentleman from Barbour.

MR. WATTS‑I call for the ayes and noes on that.

The call was not sustained.

The amendment of the gentleman from Barbour was read as follows: "Amend Section 5 of Article on Education by striking there from the following words, ‘together with the special annual tax of thirty cents on each hundred dollars of taxable property of this State,’ in lines three and four of said section, and insert in lieu thereof the following, `together with such sum as the Legislature may decide.' "

Upon a vote being taken. the amendment of the gentleman from Barbour was laid upon the table.


4219

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑I ask unanimous consent that this be placed as an amendment at the close of Section 5. I offer it as an amendment, and ask that it be read:

"Amend Section 5 by adding at the end the following, ‘and providing further that nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from first providing for the payment of the State's bonded indebtedness and interest thereon out of all the revenues of the State.' "

Now I move the previous question on the amendment and the section.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The gentleman from Talladega moves the previous question upon the section and amendment. The  question is shall the main question be now put?

MR. JONES‑I appeal to the gentleman to withdrawn that until I can send up an amendment. You can vote it down. We want to help him.

MR. GRAHAM‑I will look at the gentleman's amendment  if he will give me time.

MR. JONES‑I do not want to discuss it. I will not open my lips.

MR. GRAHAM‑ Mr. President, I am in full sympathy with that matter but I do not think it belongs under the head of education, and I decline to withdraw the motion for the previous question. If it belonged to the article on education I would put it in.

MR. JENKINS‑I move to lay the motion for the previous question on the table.

THE PRESIDENT‑ That is not in order.

MR. JENKINS‑ The Chair has ruled that it will take precedence after the previous question is ordered. If it can take precedence after the previous question is ordered, I do not see why it cannot take precedence before it is ordered.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The motion to table it seems to the Chair, if the gentleman submitted it directly to the amendment to the section would be in order, but when the previous question is moved the Convention can either adopt it or reject it. It seems to the Chair, unless the gentleman has some authority to the contrary, the Chair will overrule the point.

MR. JENKINS— It is in our rules—

MR. GRAHAM (Talladega)‑I have not yielded the floor for the gentleman to make any motion.

There were calls for the question.


4220                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question is shall the main question be now put?

Upon a vote being taken a division was called for and by a vote of 59 ayes and 40 noes the previous question was ordered.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question will be first upon amendment offered by the gentleman from Talladega, which is acceptable as he states to the members of the Committee on Education.

Upon a vote being taken the amendment was adopted.

MR. JENKINS‑I give notice that on tomorrow I will move to reconsider the vote.

Mr. Dent sought recognition.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question now is upon the adoption of Section 5 as amended.

Upon a vote being taken the Chair stated the ayes seemed to have it.

THE PRESIDENT‑ For what purpose does the gentleman rise?

MR. DENT‑I ask for the ayes and noes.

MR. OPP‑ It is too late.

THE PRESIDENT ‑The Chair thinks if the demand is made, it is not too late. The ayes and noes are demanded. Is the call sustained?

The call was sustained.

Upon a call of the roll the vote resulted as follows:

AYES

Messrs. President,

Carmichael, of Colbert,

Grayson,

Almon,

Cobb,

Greer, of Perry,

Altman,

Cofer,

Handley,

Ashcraft,

Coleman, of Greene,

Heflin, of Randolph,

Barefield,

Davis, of DeKalb,

Howze,

Bartlett,

Davis, of Etowah.

Inge,

Beavers,

Eyster,

Jenkins,

Beddow,

Espy,

Jones, of Bibb,

Bethune,

Ferguson.

Jones, of Wilcox,

Blackwell,

Foshee,

Kirk,

Boone,

Foster,

Knight,

Browne,

Freeman.

Ledbetter,

Bulger,

Gilmore,

Locklin,

Burnett,

Glover,

Lowe ( Jefferson ) .

Byars,

Graham, of Talladega,

Cardon,

Grant,


4221

CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, 1901

Lowe (Lawrence),

Opp,

Rogers (Lowndes),

Macdonald,

O'Rear,

Sanders,

Malone,

Palmer,

Smith (Mobile),

Martin,

Parker (Cullman),

Smith, Mac. A.,

Maxwell,

Parker (Elmore),

Spragins,

Miller (Marengo),

Pettus,

Stewart,

Miller (Wilcox.),

Phillips,

Thompson,

Mulkey,

Pillans,

White,

Norman,

Porter,

Williams (Barbour),

Norwood,

Proctor,

Wilson (Clarke),

O’Neal (Lauderdale),

Reese,

Wilson (Washington),

TOTAL— 79

NOES

Banks,

Merrill,

Vaughan,

Chapman,

Murphree,

Waddell,

Craig,

Oates,

Walker,

Dent,

Pitts,

Watts,

Eley,

Sanford,

Whiteside,

Henderson,

Searcy,

Jones, of Montgomery,

Selheimer,

TOTAL‑19

ABSENT OR NOT VOTING

Brooks,

Howell,

Reynolds (Henry),

Burns,

Jones, of Hale,

Robinson,

Carmichael, of Coffee,

King,

Rogers (Sumter),

Carnathon,

Kirkland,

Samford,

Case,

Kyle,

Sentell,

Coleman, of Walker,

Leigh,

Sloan,

Cornwall,

Lomax,

Smith, Morgan M.,

Cunningham,

Long (Butler),

Sollie,

deGraffenreid,

McMillan (Baldwin),

Sorrell,

Duke,

McMillan (Wilcox),

Spears,

Fletcher,

Moody,

Studdard,

Graham, of Montgomery,

Morrisette,

Tayloe,

Haley,

NeSmith,

Weakley,

Heflin, of Chambers,

O'Neill (Jeffersogn),

Weatherly,

Hinson,

Pearce,

Willet,

Hodges,

Renfro,

Williams (Marengo),

Hood,

Reynolds (Chilton),

Williams (Elmore),

PAIRED

AYES                                                 NOES

Fitts,

Winn,

Greer, of Calhoun,

Harrison,

Long (Walker),

Jackson,


4222                  

OFFICIAL PROCEEDINGS

During roll call:

MR. WEAKLEY–On the section as reported by the committee I was paired with Mr. Spears. If  he were present he would have voted aye and I would have voted no. Since the section has been amended it meets my views, and I desire to be recorded as voting aye.

And the section was adopted.

MR. LONG (Walker)‑I move that the vote by which Section 5 of this article he reconsidered, and I also move to lay that motion on the table.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The motion would not stand for consideration at this time.

MR. LONG‑I move that the rules be suspended.

MR. COBB‑I move that we adjourn.

THE PRESIDENT‑ The question is upon the motion to suspend the rules.

Upon a vote being taken a division was called for.

By a vote of 53 ayes and 29 noes the motion to suspend the rules was lost.

MR. PROCTOR‑I move that we adjourn.

MR. COBB‑I move that we adjourn.

Upon a vote being taken the Convention adjourned.

________________